Oral History Transcript - Rose Brooks - May 22, 2008
Interview with Rose Brooks
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: May 22, 2008
Location: LBJ Museum, San Marcos, Texas
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Interviewee: Rose Brooks, a lifelong San Marcos resident, is a former employee of Community Action and Gary Job Corps. A graduate of Huston-Tillotson University, she is a community and political activist.
Topics: Mrs. Brooks talks about growing up in San Marcos beginning in the 1930s, segregation, Community Action, Gary Job Corp Center, civil rights, Lyndon Johnson’s legacy
THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is May 22, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Rose Brooks at the LBJ Museum in San Marcos, Texas.
Mrs. Brooks, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or a no?
BROOKS: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Thank you very much, Mrs. Brooks.
Let’s start with your background. I know you have a long background in San Marcos. When were you born?
BROOKS: I was born August 18, 1933.
THIBODEAUX: And where did your family live at that time?
BROOKS: We lived in Redwood.
THIBODEAUX: Was that a rural area?
BROOKS: A rural area.
THIBODEAUX: And your father was a farmer?
BROOKS: A farmer and my mother was a homemaker. She never worked outside the home.
THIBODEAUX: You said you really weren’t sure about electricity on the farm, but can you just describe what life was like on the farm?
BROOKS: Well, we raised most of our vegetables, and my daddy loved to fish so we ate a lot of fish. And then we had hogs and, like, whoever he worked for had cattle. So most of the food, you know, was good food back in that time.
THIBODEAUX: And you mentioned something about a wood stove?
BROOKS: Yes. We had a wood stove, and then your washing, you had, like, a big pot that you would, like, boil water in. And you had a—
THIBODEAUX: Wringer?
BROOKS: No. You had like a board that you would do your clothes.
THIBODEAUX: And do you remember about lighting? Was it by lamp?
BROOKS: By lamp.
THIBODEAUX: Like an oil lamp?
BROOKS: Yeah, it was kerosene oil—that was oil. Yes.
THIBODEAUX: So you probably didn’t have electricity at that time.
BROOKS: No. No. And you had outside toilets too. Even when we moved to San Marcos, we didn’t have sewage. We had outside.
THIBODEAUX: So when did you move to San Marcos?
BROOKS: When I was eight years old.
THIBODEAUX: And why did you come to San Marcos?
BROOKS: For better schools.
THIBODEAUX: And can you describe the schools?
BROOKS: The only school that I went to was Dunbar—where Dunbar is now. That’s located on Martin Luther King and—what’s that other—Endicott.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe the area where you lived?
BROOKS: It was a mixed area with blacks and Hispanics, and I lived, like, two or three blocks from the school. You would walk, and I could come home at lunch. My mother cooked, and I would always bring a friend to eat because we didn’t have a cafeteria.
THIBODEAUX: And was that a segregated school?
BROOKS: Only blacks.
THIBODEAUX: And that was Dunbar, you said?
BROOKS: Um hmm. Well, it was San Marcos Colored School at that time. I can’t even remember when it become Dunbar.
THIBODEAUX: Who was Dunbar named after?
BROOKS: Laurence Dunbar.
THIBODEAUX: And was he from San Marcos?
BROOKS: Um-um. I can’t even remember—they got a writing of him—something he did. I think he was an educator or something. It should’ve been named probably after one of our teachers or something that taught there for a long time, but it wasn’t.
THIBODEAUX: What was it like growing up in a segregated town?
BROOKS: Well, it’s just something that you knew at that time. See, I never was—I grew up with little white children, you know, when we were on the farm, and we loved each other. It didn’t make too many difference. We knew where we was supposed to be at that time, and we could walk wherever we needed to go and just—we had a lot of love back in that time. And things was cheap, and you didn’t have to worry about three- and four-dollar gas like we do now. (laughs) No, it was okay. You knew where you was supposed to be at that time.
THIBODEAUX: You were telling me something about the restaurants in town.
BROOKS: Well, you know, at that time we didn’t really eat out anyway. You did most—my mother was a homemaker, and we knew seven days a week what every day she was going to cook. Maybe Wednesday we had chili and beans or something like that. She did three meals a day, so we had no need to eat out. Maybe—well, we knew that there was restaurants and if we wanted something from there, you had to go in the backdoor.
THIBODEAUX: And you also mentioned something about getting a ticket to ride on the bus?
BROOKS: Yeah. You would have to go inside and buy your ticket and sit outside on a little brick-like stool and wait on the bus. And then you knew when you get on there, you have to go in the back. When you get to Austin—the longest place I ever rode the bus to was to Austin—and you get out and they have big signs up at the bathroom, not like back here it’s just, “Men,” and “Women.” They have, “Colored Only.” And you know that’s where you should go.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember about services in the area that you lived in, such as postal service? Did you have regular postal service—
BROOKS: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: —to your house?
BROOKS: Um hmm. It came to your house.
THIBODEAUX: So growing up in San Marcos, did you feel that the services were adequate for your area, say, for roads and street signs?
BROOKS: Well, it was fair.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember political representation? Did the African American community have adequate representation in the city council?
BROOKS: No. We just begin the last few years to be able to elect. We fought for the single member district. We had met on that. I was always against the single member districts for the city, and I didn’t want a lawsuit to go through for the school, but I’m the one that was real instrumental and say, “Well, we’ll go ahead.” But we’re the minorities at the time, and you would think when they passed the single member districts that they would ask a black to run in one of those districts, but, no, it was three Hispanics.
Finally, we did have James Bryant to run, and he did win and it might have been at large. We’re better off at large running than we are in a single member district because in the single member district mostly is made up of Hispanics. And I think most of our city council people, they run better at large because you got a cross-section of people.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember in the early days prior to 1965 of paying a poll tax to vote?
BROOKS: Yeah. Yeah. I paid that (laughs) to vote. Yeah, I think it was $1.50, maybe the last time was $1.75 you have to pay to vote, and if you didn’t pay that, then you didn’t vote. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Was that a problem for some people in the minority community to pay that?
BROOKS: Probably was. I don’t think at that time a lot of minorities was that interested probably in voting. For a long time we couldn’t vote anyway, so.
THIBODEAUX: You were the first in your family to graduate from college with a bachelor of science in business from Huston-Tillotson?
BROOKS: Um-hmm.
THIBODEAUX: If you had wanted to attend Southwest Texas at that time, was that possible?
BROOKS: Aahh! Uh-uh. Not at that time. No, it wasn’t integrated at that time.
THIBODEAUX: I think we talked, it was probably in the late ‘60s when it became integrated.
BROOKS: Yeah. I believe so. Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: When did you graduate from college?
BROOKS: Nineteen fifty-eight.
THIBODEAUX: And what did you do after graduation?
BROOKS: Well, I worked at the college for a while in the—I ran the snack bar. Then I taught at Peoples Business College for a while.
THIBODEAUX: The college that you worked at the snack bar, was that at Huston-Tillotson?
BROOKS: Yes, it was Huston-Tillotson.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember segregation ending in San Marcos in the school district—the school system?
BROOKS: Let me see, I graduated in ’53. I think our first students was like integrating—they started in the elementary school probably in ’54 or ’55, something like that. Because I think our first graduating class from high school must have been in ’56 or ’55, somewhere along in there.
THIBODEAUX: What encouraged the African Americans of San Marcos to become more politically active? When did they get interested?
BROOKS: Alfonso Washington, Mary Ann Williams. Alfonso Washington served on the school board for several years. Mary Ann Williams I think for one time and then Patricia Spearman, and then on city council we had Earl Mosley, and that hadn’t been too many years ago. Then we had Martha Tatum, and now we got Chris Jones, a former student at Texas State.
THIBODEAUX: So when they became politically active, they kind of brought the community with them?
BROOKS: Um-hmm. Um-hmm.
THIBODEAUX: Did Lyndon Johnson ever seek the support of the African American community in the San Marcos area? Do you remember?
BROOKS: Not that—I think his family more like Luci Baines Johnson had been pretty active in the community period. I don’t remember—and his wife was too—but I don’t remember whether he was or not.
THIBODEAUX: So you don’t know if he ever solicited the concerns of the community while he was congressman or senator, vice president?
BROOKS: I can’t remember that.
THIBODEAUX: In a previous interview you discussed how Martin Luther King, Jr. had inspired you. What are your thoughts—how do you think Martin Luther King inspired or influenced Lyndon Johnson?
BROOKS: I think he inspired him because of the things that he was doing to encourage—after we got the rights to vote—encouraging us to go out and vote and to participate and meet with Lyndon Johnson to make sure that the Civil Rights Act was passed and reviewed, so many years I think it have to be reviewed.
THIBODEAUX: How did the African American community feel about Lyndon Johnson? Did they see him as just a local—like a local son that became involved in politics, or did they really think that he was going to help the African American community?
BROOKS: I think they just viewed him as another president once they get there because they’re from the local, he just did what you would do overall. You know, not—couldn’t just focus on one community because he was from here. You know, you’re the president for the whole United States. We might want to look at it like that, but you’re there to do what’s best for the whole United States not just because I’m from around this area that I can do more for—that’s not true because you have—you sign papers and view—tell the stuff, but you’ve got all these other people that can vote you down or whatever.
THIBODEAUX: So he was supported by the African American community as the democratic—
BROOKS: Yes. Most blacks around here is democrats—was at that time. People—demographic change somewhat, but I don’t think so far in San Marcos.
THIBODEAUX: I believe you worked for Community Action. Can you describe the agency and what you did there?
BROOKS: I was an outreach worker, try to go out and take people to the doctor, see if I could help them get food stamps and that type of thing. And I think this is during the time that I came more political involved because Ofelia Vasquez—she’s one of my mentors that was involved in school board and all of that.
I’ve always thought a lot about education. You know, I’m so proud of my grandchildren. I think I’m an example. My oldest granddaughter graduated about ten years ago from Baylor University. I have a niece that graduated from Baylor University. Had a niece that graduated from Abilene Christian University. So my family as I look at it—and then I’m looking at my other two grandchildren, they in college. Maybe I’m an example.
THIBODEAUX: I think so. That was something graduating from college back in the ’50s for any woman especially.
BROOKS: Yeah. And working your way through. My dad and mom didn’t have a lot of money, but back then I could pay $5 a week for a room, when make $12 a week and almost have room and board for nothing, and I paid my way through college for four years, and books back at that time was even expensive—pretty expensive. And tuition was cheap, but you still had to pay. You couldn’t get grants and stuff like you can get today to help you. It’s still getting harder.
THIBODEAUX: Going back to Community Action, is Community Action a federal program? Was it an outgrowth of one of the Great Society programs?
BROOKS: I think it’s in our growth, like the Head Start, and Community Action I think it came up under, like, Lyndon Johnson, that he saw the need to help the poor. If I can remember, it come during that time.
THIBODEAUX: So the Community Action was funded by the federal government?
BROOKS: Yes, it was.
THIBODEAUX: And is it still in operation today?
BROOKS: It is today.
THIBODEAUX: Is there any other comments about the program?
BROOKS: I think it was a very good program. It’s still a very good program because under—they still have a Head Start. They have one daycare that’s named after Alfonso Washington there.
And also—maybe you don’t know—I’ve served on a lot of committees for the city and also I’ve served on the housing board. I always liked that because I’m interested in better houses. We had a lot of opposition when we building a lot of homes from scratch, like on Martin Luther King, which made the neighborhood look a lots better. Those little brick houses right there close to Dunbar. They was just built when I was on the board, and we had meetings and people didn’t want them that lived on San Antonio Street. But that’s pretty good now. You know, they should want the area to look better. But they was scared, I guess, of some lower income going to get in there and they’re going to raise hell and be rowdy. But those were some of the things.
THIBODEAUX: I believe you also worked for Gary Job Corps Center, which is another Johnson program from the Great Society.
BROOKS: Yeah. Right.
THIBODEAUX: Can you tell us what you did for Gary Job Corps?
BROOKS: Actually, when I started out there, they wasn’t hiring women in too many things, so I actually started in food service. And I filed a grievance and won, so then I became a supervisor in one of the dormitories. I worked out there for about thirty-five years or more.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, a very long time.
BROOKS: And I had several positions. I did outreach work for them. I worked with—let’s see. We had an AFDC program, and I was the coordinator of that and I would have to go pick up young women from Austin and help them fill out application. That was very rewarding.
About a year ago this month I had a student to call—ex-student call me—and I didn’t answer her call and she was very persistent. So finally I called her back. She was working for the state, and she graduated last December from up here, and she graduated with honors. She was a single mom with one son, and she had got married and she had two children. I think her oldest was about fifteen years old, and she remembered me. She said that I was so good to her, and I really cared. It was a nice program. We got some students that have gone off and finished college, and some worked for the state, and just a wonderful program.
THIBODEAUX: I guess that’s been very successful.
BROOKS: Um hmm. Very successful.
THIBODEAUX: You mentioned a suit. Did you file a discrimination suit against Gary Job Corps Center?
BROOKS: Yeah, because they wasn’t hiring, and I thought I was more qualified than some of the men. So one of the questions that they asked me, would I work at night, even though I had—my oldest daughter was old enough, so I say, “Yeah, whatever a man can do, I can do. I can work at night.” So they did put me on the eleven-to-eight shift, and I worked, like, ten years that eleven-to-eight shift. But then I could do other work in the day, so it turned out real good.
THIBODEAUX: So you opened doors there for other women to work at the center?
BROOKS: Yes, I did. I did. And then they were being hired as supervisors and stuff. Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: So were you there when they made that transition from just a male-only to women—to bring women in?
BROOKS: Um hmm. Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: I have heard that there were quite a few disciplinary problems early on, and once they brought the women into the center it kind of helped calm things down.
BROOKS: Well, it always was some. Even with just guys, you had disciplinary problem stuff. I don’t think maybe as much when we brought in girls. It was pretty good.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe the educational program there? The vocational program?
BROOKS: Very good I think. They had very good teachers, good managers of the certain programs. I thought real good, and then later on they brought in the college program that they could be there and they could go to Texas State, Austin Community College. Then they could work on getting their high school diploma, and it’s really have improved now since I left.
THIBODEAUX: When did you leave the corps?
BROOKS: In 2000 when a new company came in. Because I wasn’t too good in computers, and everything is done by computers. They offered me a job, but I was making real good and I already was, like, sixty-seven, so it didn’t matter. So I just wrote through my unemployment and left.
THIBODEAUX: It was a good time to retire.
BROOKS: And I did just—yeah, well, I wasn’t going to go back in the dormitory when I was doing outreach work and making $2,000 a month, and I’m going to go back and work for $9 an hour, uh uh. So I said no.
THIBODEAUX: How did the center interact with San Marcos? And were there things that they built here or were involved in?
BROOKS: I think very good. Sometimes they had a few problems, like—and they do that even with the high school kids. But I thought they interacted pretty good because they used to have, like, community relations that the people from the community would get involved with Gary Job Corps, you know, try to promote scholarships for the kids that was going to college and different stuff like that. So it’s been pretty well interactive. Some people—they want to say, you got mischievous young people here in San Marcos like some of them out there. You always going to find some that’s not going to be just right.
THIBODEAUX: What kind of impact do you think the Gary Job Corps Center has had on San Marcos?
BROOKS: I think very good because—and on surrounding areas—because it gave us jobs, which we would probably have to go out of town for employment. Because other than Texas State and Gary Job Corps and the school system, it’s not that many job opportunities. I mean, the mall and stuff like that, but it came in later years.
THIBODEAUX: And you tell me you weren’t really involved in any of Johnson’s campaigns. Did you ever see him campaigning in San Marcos?
BROOKS: Not that I can remember.
THIBODEAUX: Do you think Lyndon Johnson had an impact or an influence on the state Democratic Party?
BROOKS: I’m almost sure, yes.
THIBODEAUX: As the Vietnam War escalated, did Lyndon Johnson lose any support in the area? Did people start turning against him?
BROOKS: Not that I know of. I think he’s always been very well-loved around this area by him going to school here, and his family has always given back, especially Luci. She’s always coming around.
THIBODEAUX: Texas State University has a campus-wide program called the Common Experience. And the themes for this year are civic responsibility and LBJ’s legacy. Addressing that first theme, what would you like students to understand about civic responsibility? And you were talking about even today that you help out.
BROOKS: With the educational foundation. I’ve been on that for about fifteen years that we do stuff for the school. I just got an appreciation award about three weeks ago. It’s like attending meetings and selling stuff. I think they need to be involved, and I do think that our students like the Bobcat Build. There’s a civic deal where they’re giving back to the community. Then they got like the Democratic Club, the Republican Club. They get involved with the members—people in the community, and I think it’s real good. I think they have a representative student that sits on the city council that come there and see what’s going on.
THIBODEAUX: What do you think is Lyndon Johnson’s greatest legacy? In this area or in the nationwide?
BROOKS: I think he was—probably the Community Action, the Job Corps Programs, and that would be this area and all over because they got a hundred and some Job Corps or more, some that I probably don’t even know about. So some of the programs like Head Start is still continuing, and it’s probably needed more today because a lot of people just don’t have money to send their kids to daycare. And this here is a free program, and I think that’s one of his—and the civil rights program, the movement, you know. I think that always will be remembered.
THIBODEAUX: Now, I have a personal question for you. (laughs) I read that you were a super-delegate—have been a super-delegate in the past.
BROOKS: I’m not a super-delegate. I have been six times (laughs) and I already sent in my stuff, but if Obama’s going to be the nominee, this would be one time that I would love to go because we’ve never had a black that—you know Jesse Jackson had ran and like that, but he never was the nominee. And I do believe Obama’s going to be the nominee. I’m praying that he will be. I think because—and nothing wrong with Hillary. I just think that he’s brought so many young people. He’d involve people and involving together from the young, old, all different races. He brought out more where you can understand race.
Like I say, he’s come from both worlds. He wasn’t raised by no black woman, he was raised by his white grandmother. People need to look at that. And he talked about his father being on food stamps, and I don’t think he’s had it as easy as Hillary had. I really don’t think so, so I think—I don’t know why the working class can’t see this because he’s mainly out with the working class and represent—but maybe they looking at it, just don’t want to vote for this man, he’s a black man. I don’t know, but then I’m looking at so many Anglos have voted for him, and I think they closed their eyes and say, This is a very intelligent man. His wife is very intelligent.
Yeah, I have—I first started going back in 1984. So that’s been a good while. The last one I went to was Boston.
THIBODEAUX: So you’ve been a delegate like two or three times?
BROOKS: Oh, to the—I’ve been a national delegate six times.
THIBODEAUX: Six times. Oh, wow!
BROOKS: Yeah, and then I’ve been to the state convention for the last thirty years probably. I’m going this time, and I already filed to go to Denver. And if I’m not a delegate, I still might go maybe as a volunteer or something. And if I don’t get to go, I’ve been there. But if I be selected, I understand that they even send applications to Obama’s camp, that he looks—because I got a letter from his organization thanking me for being a delegate to the state here. So that means he has looked at all the delegates that’s for him.
THIBODEAUX: Wow, that is exciting.
Was there anything else you’d like to add about—
BROOKS: Well, that I’ve been precinct chair for about thirty years too. But this time was the worst time that I ever had because we never had—some people left. We had—Obama just had so many young folks that came out. I think they just really got tired. And then the election ran longer. This has been an exciting year.
THIBODEAUX: It has.
BROOKS: It’s very exciting and I think because of him, and I don’t know if you know that he won Hays County.
THIBODEAUX: Yes.
BROOKS: He had more votes than Hillary had. So that I think with the students and liberal Anglos like Bob Barton and all of those people, his whole family is for Obama. So it’s real exciting.
THIBODEAUX: Well, thank you, Mrs. Brooks. If there’s nothing else you would like to share.
BROOKS: No. I thought at first I said, “I ain’t going to know whatever to talk about.” (Both laugh) I didn’t think I’d know anything, but I tell you, God just works it all out and help you remember everything. And I’m glad—I got a letter awhile back and saying that somebody probably would be calling me to interview me.
(End of interview)