Oral History Transcript - Red Jurecka - April 9, 2008
Interview with Red Jurecka
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: April 9, 2008
Location: LBJ Museum, San Marcos, TX
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Interviewee: Lawrence F. “Red” Jurecka – Mr. Jurecka received his bachelor’s degree in history and journalism in 1952 and his master’s in history and educational administration in 1956. He worked as an aide to Senator Lyndon Johnson in Washington, D.C. during the mid-1950s.
BARBARA THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is April 9, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Lawrence Jurecka at the LBJ Museum in San Marcos, Texas.
Mr. Jurecka, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or a no?
RED JURECKA: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Thank you very much,
Are you a native of San Marcos?
JURECKA: Use “Red” from now on.
THIBODEAUX: I would like to do that. (Jurecka laughs) Thank you. I can see why they call you “Red.”
THIBODEAUX: I have red hair too, and I always heard that they gray prematurely. (Both laugh) So that’s my excuse.
Are you a native of San Marcos?
JURECKA: I would say basically I am. My mother just passed away at 94 on our place on the Blanco River, which is right in town basically now and we had as a summer place and started coming up here when I was very young. Then I started the fourth grade here in public school, so I’m basically a native, I would say, yes. Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: When did you attend Southwest Texas as an undergraduate?
JURECKA: I got my degree in three years. I went from ’49 to ’52, and the military was breathing down my neck and I’d gotten deferments to finish. So immediately when I finished in ’52 I had to go to military service in June.
THIBODEAUX: Was that during the Korean War?
JURECKA: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe the campus just generally at that time?
JURECKA: Small, friendly.
THIBODEAUX: You had a very distinguished career as an undergraduate. I have a long list (Jurecka laughs) of all the clubs and organizations that you were involved in, and some of these I wasn’t quite sure exactly what they were. The Jeffersonian Literary Society, I think that’s something that Lyndon Johnson was involved in also. What was that organization?
JURECKA: Well, that was before the fraternities. That was a fraternity in a sense. They were called literary organizations. Even the girls clubs were called Shakespearean Literary Societies and so forth, and they evolved to fraternities. We evolved to Sigma Nu.
THIBODEAUX: Let’s see. And the Newman Club was a Catholic organization?
JURECKA: Catholic, right.
THIBODEAUX: And you were a member of the Student Interclub Council?
JURECKA: That was a council of all presidents of organizations then formed—it was sort of like a student council in high school or something of that nature, you know. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: And the Inter-organization Council, what was that?
JURECKA: That was the organization then if you represented the Inter Club, then you went to organizational, which was the hierarchy of the group. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Chi Gamma Iota, is that how you pronounce it? I-o-t-a?
JURECKA: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Was that a veterans organization?
JURECKA: I don’t recall that I was—I don’t remember that one, to be honest with you.
THIBODEAUX: Okay. I see that you were director of the students union staff.
JURECKA: Yes, um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: What was that?
JURECKA: Well, the student union staff was run by the student union director, but then they had a governing board of students. And we were the governing board.
THIBODEAUX: And you also did College Players—
JURECKA: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: —and involved in theater. College Campsite Board. What was that?
JURECKA: Well, that’s when they established the campsite that year at the university out there. University Camp now it’s called out near Wimberley.
THIBODEAUX: That’s on the Blanco River?
JURECKA: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: And then you were a member of the Gamma Upsilon Rho?
JURECKA: No.
THIBODEAUX: Social science organization?
JURECKA: Oh. That one, probably, yeah. Okay. I was a social science major as well.
THIBODEAUX: So you had a long list of organizations that you were an officer in.
During your undergraduate years, did LBJ ever visit campus?
JURECKA: Yes, several times.
THIBODEAUX: Were you present on any of those occasions?
JURECKA: Both—on most occasions, yeah. Both occasions that I remember, yeah.
THIBODEAUX: What do you remember about those occasions?
JURECKA: Oh, impressive. Probably more than anything just impressed that a person of his caliber had graduated from here and was returning to campus, yes.
THIBODEAUX: Was that as part of a campaign or just to speak?
JURECKA: Once to speak and I think once during the campaign, if I’m correct. I’m not sure.
THIBODEAUX: And as editor of the Star or as a member of the Star staff, did you have an opportunity to cover those events?
JURECKA: No.
THIBODEAUX: How did you acquire the position as secretarial assistant to Senator Johnson?
JURECKA: Well, that title is kind of ambiguous in a way. When he became majority leader in the United States Senate, he called Dr. [John G.] Flowers and asked Dr. Flowers to recommend a person to go up there to work for him. One day Clara Taylor, who was Dr. Flowers’ secretary, came and got me out of class and said the president wanted to see me. Well, I didn’t—I couldn’t think what—I was still working with the fraternity some because I was in graduate school then. I’d just come back from the military and was in graduate school, and I thought, well, something’s happened because the dean of men would’ve called me I thought on some problem. And I was rather fearful of going in (laughs) to see him even though I had a casual acquaintance with him through my undergraduate work, and he’d written very nice letters to the draft board getting me exemptions to finish my degree. But anyway, I came in and he explained to me—I asked Clare. She and I were on good terms, and I asked her, “What’s going on? What does he want?” “Well, he’ll explain it to you,” is all she would say. So we went in—I went in rather, and he told me of his telephone conversation he’d had with the senator and that he was looking for someone to go to Washington and everything.
I had thoughts of going in the courier service or going to law school, and while I was in the military I had a clearance for top secret, so I had had some experience in courier work. So that’s what I was thinking about possibly doing, so I thought, well, a step to go there. And I was assured that I’d be able to go to school while I was there as well, working him and going to school, which I might add never materialized. You didn’t—you worked a full twenty-four-hour-a-day for him.
But anyway, I went up there and the position was—a very graceful lady called Grace Tully, who had been FDR’s secretary, he had hired Grace. Grace was kind of on the down-and-out. She didn’t make much in those days, and she’d been out of work a little bit and did some other work, so he had hired her to run the majority office, which was in the capitol itself and then he had the office in the Senate Office Building for his senatorial purposes.
So my job was to every morning go in and see Grace, and she gave me a typed list of who was to see him and approximately when they would be there. Then I stayed on the senate floor or else out in the reception area, and when these people came, well, then I went in to get him and tell him that these people were here and so forth. So that was pretty much my duty, as well as fending off these people who came up just casually to see him because in all the letters written were always, “Please don’t hesitate to visit me when you’re in Washington. I’ll be glad to do this,” blah, blah, blah, blah “for you.” And then we always never took a stand on any letters we wrote. We always said, “Well, we’ll bear your views in mind when the issue comes forward,” and so forth.
So these people would come in there and want to see him, and I had to fend them off. And sometimes I would go in and tell him that so-and-so was there and rarely would he break his schedule to see them unless there was some reason that I wasn’t aware of and he was interested in them. I would try to fend them off by sending them back to the senator’s office, and I would call ahead that so-and-so was coming. I would tell them I could arrange a trip to Mount Vernon for them. I could do a White House tour for them. I could do this and this for them instead, but I always had to say that he was—we were in hot debate and going to vote soon and just there’s no way he could see them, you know.
There was one funny incident though that this woman came up, and she told me that she had taught school with him down in Cotulla and she wanted to see him. So I went in there and said—I don’t remember her name—but say, “Helen Morgan is here and she wants to see you.” “Who in the hell is Helen Morgan?” I said, “Well, you used to teach school with her down at Cotulla.” So he said, “No, I can’t see her.” So I went out and tried to talk to Helen and say how busy we were, and would she like to go to the White House? Would she like to go to Mount Vernon? Blah, blah, blah, blah. “No, no. I’ll just wait,” she says. “I know he wants to see me, so I’ll just wait.” So after a little while I went back in and I told him, I said, “You know, I can’t get rid of her.” I said, “She wants to see you.” He said, “I’m not going to see her.” He said, “I don’t care if I slept with her, I’m not going to see her.” (laughs) So I went back out to soothe some more, and finally he came in and I said, “She wants to see you and she’ll be here until it closes, so you better make up your mind if you’re going to see her or not.” So he said, “All right, give me five minutes with her.” So I went outside and—that was the normal thing. He’d say how long he wanted to be with even the people that were on the list, and I would come out and say, “We’re ready to vote,” or “We need you for in here. You need to be in the House or on the floor,” and so that was mainly about my duties.
Then when we were not in session, I went into the senator’s office or I went to another office, which we had. When [Alben W.] Barkley was vice president, he had an office down on the first floor in the Senate Office Building, was a spacious office and everything but it was too small for what Nixon wanted. So he redid some space upstairs and that was vacant, so it became part of the majority’s grab of the offices. So I was in there with a guy named Booth Mooney, a speechwriter. And I’d go back there and do the work back there or do some work in the senatorial office there.
Being on the floor like that in the Senate, I was around the senators every day of all parties, and many interesting things happened during that period of time. [Senator Joseph] McCarthy having been censured and seeing him a broken man was something that I’ll always remember. I could ride the senators’ elevator. We had two elevators. They had a public elevator and then an elevator for just the senators to ride, and I could ride it. He got on it one day, and the guy—the elevator operator—his job was secure. It was a patronage type job. And Jimmy, this other guy, a doorkeeper, was going to be let go. And he asked him if he could put a good word in for him, and McCarthy said, “Well, my word doesn’t mean much around here anymore.” I mean, a very broken man, you know, like that. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: So did you get to see Senator Johnson in action on the senate floor?
JURECKA: Oh yeah. I stayed back there in the back a lot when I had time between times, you know, and that mostly I was out there by the office. There was a ceremonial office there that was used for publicity purposes with all the senators could use it, or the vice president came there quite often and used it for some things. I would see all the activity going on right there next to us there.
THIBODEAUX: Were there any particular senators that he worked with the most?
JURECKA: Yeah. There was Senator [Richard B.] Russell and Senator [George] Smathers and quite a few of the southern—mostly southern senators, yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Was your position treated as an internship or was it a regular job?
JURECKA: No. It was no internship. No, I was being paid by the Democratic Party. It was a position that was allowed—or not allowed but that went along with the majority office.
THIBODEAUX: Was there anyone that went with you or was hired from Texas State—or I’m sorry, Southwest Texas at the time?
JURECKA: Yes. There was another boy that went up with me, and he became a doorkeeper, which is above the senate floor up there at the door, checking passes for people to go into the gallery to observe the floor.
THIBODEAUX: You mentioned constituents kind of showing up. How did Senator Johnson treat his constituents—not the ones that just showed up unexpectedly? (Both laugh) But did he have a policy about how they were treated? Maybe their letters whenever they wrote to the senator, were all the letters read and answered?
JURECKA: Yeah. They were answered, but he had no regard to how they were answered. They were answered in the senator’s office, and he rarely went to that office. So he really didn’t know actually what was being said in those letters—particular letters.
But then people who were on the schedule to see him, they had a purpose and that was pretty well-defined. He knew what the deal was when those people came, but like if you came up even though you’d been writing him consistently on something, he was not aware of that at all. No.
THIBODEAUX: You said you worked too many hours to go to school. So what was it like working there? Was it pretty much just all day long? Did Senator Johnson work long late hours and expected you to do the same?
JURECKA: Yeah. Yes. Definitely so. Yeah. And see, these other people that were up there on patronage type jobs, their senators let them go to school. Some took off the afternoons and some were in the evenings and things like that. There was always, well, next semester we’ll arrange it. Well, next semester came and it wasn’t arranged on that basis.
Probably the only funny thing that ever happened to me though was I had some pages assigned to me, and they would report. They had a list of senators to check and before any vote was ever done, we knew what the outcome would basically be or it wouldn’t be voted on. One of the jobs was for me to take a page and go up on top of the Capitol and raise the flag when they were in session.
This one time we went up there, this page and I, and he didn’t want to go out. It was raining and he didn’t want to go out there. He said, “No. I’m not going to go. I’m not going to go.” I said, “We got to get this flag up there,” and he said, “Well, I’m not going to go.” I had just bought a new gray flannel—not flannel—wool suit. I didn’t have much heavy clothing down here, but I’d just bought this new suit. So I said, “Well, I have to do it.” So I took off all my clothes but my shorts, (laughs) went up there and put the flag up and came back. Naturally my shorts were all wet, so I had to take them off. So I spent the day without any shorts on or anything. (laughs) That was probably the only really funny thing that happened. Oh, there were a lot of things but that one always sticks in my mind. What if the door had slammed? Would he have had enough sense to go down and get some help, that page, because then the pages were quite young. They were not as mature as they are now. They were, well, in late junior high, early high school. They were, like, fourteen to sixteen or something like that.
THIBODEAUX: So how long did you work for Senator Johnson?
JURECKA: About—almost three years. I think about two and a half or something like that. I’m not exactly sure how long.
THIBODEAUX: And so did you leave so you could return to school?
JURECKA: No. (laughs) He really hated people who left him and would make statements like, “Well, rats always leave sinking ships,” and things of this nature. So I really was scared to say I was going to leave. But I’d had my fill of things because I wasn’t advancing myself, and I wasn’t doing what I wanted to do, and I saw other people on the staff who had been with him all these years and had worked six days a week from a little before eight till eight and nine. I saw their health go down, and I said, “This isn’t going to be me.” “This isn’t going to be me,” I kept saying.
Then Walter Richter was a very close friend of mine, and I’d come down to work in the office—we were out of session—in Austin in the federal building, and across the alley was the Steck Company, and Walter was with Steck. He knew I was back in town because we’d talked. So he came across the alley one day and said, “Let’s go to lunch.” So we went lunch and I told him then that I was pretty fed up with things, and he said, “Well, I got a deal for you.” He said he was going down to become director of the Warm Springs Foundation down in Gonzales and so he was leaving his position with Steck. And he said, “I’ll recommend you and you’ll get it.” It was publishing of high school and college annuals. See, I’d had two years as an editor of the Pedagog and one year as assistant editor but did basically most of the work, and I’d published annuals in high school and so I had an interest in—I’d had worked workshops, so it was really up my alley. So I took that and I resigned and went to work at Steck.
THIBODEAUX: Had you met Senator Johnson before he went to Washington?
JURECKA: Yes. I met him when he was on campus every time, yeah. There was usually a—when he was here there was a little meeting of student leaders, and so I got to meet him then.
THIBODEAUX: So was he different from those meetings to when you worked for him in his office?
JURECKA: Oh yes. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: How was that different?
JURECKA: Wasn’t Mr. Friendly. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: So your impression changed from your first initial impression to the end of your association?
JURECKA: The first time it was a social visit. The next time it was business. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: And he was all business then.
So after you left his office, did you ever have any contact with the Johnson family after that?
JURECKA: Yeah. Luci and I had some and then on several occasions I was with functions where they were there, Lady Bird was there. Then when he came back to campus several times after that time, I saw him here after the presidency. Yeah. I didn’t have any contact with him during the presidency. I had friends that were in the White House. Some that were left over from working at the majority office were there, and I stopped by there several times.
I then went to work in Boston and I would fly up to Boston quite often, and I’d stop off in Washington on several occasions and things like that. But when I went over to the White House, they were gone as a rule.
THIBODEAUX: So he didn’t recognize you as the rat that left the ship? (laughs)
JURECKA: No. No. (laughs) I was only one rat. There were a lot of rats.
THIBODEAUX: So you had a cordial relationship?
JURECKA: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, that’s good.
I know you were involved in the—or still involved in the Democratic Party. Did you work on any of his campaigns?
JURECKA: Yes, I did. I worked very hard on the Kennedy-Johnson ticket, very strong. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Where were you during that election?
JURECKA: I was here.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe what you did with the campaign or just how the campaign worked in San Marcos?
JURECKA: Well, I don’t exactly know how to describe it because I worked some in the Austin office, which was more or less kind of the state headquarters for them. I was in and out of there some. I did some precinct type work and met with a lot of people and things of that nature, but that’s basically it. Passed out a lot of brochures and stuff of this nature.
THIBODEAUX: Was there an attempt by the Kennedy-Johnson ticket to court the Hispanic vote?
JURECKA: No. Not here. Yes, in San Antonio very strong, and here there was no basic Hispanic vote at that time. I mean, we’re talking years ago, but like in San Antonio and the Valley and that, yes, there was but we just—here they were just part of our regular vote type thing. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: So it wasn’t like the Hispanic community was large and organized? They were just—
JURECKA: Yeah. There weren’t that many of them to begin with, and there were only a few of those that were actively in politics. The majority of them were not. I would say probably 75 percent weren’t involved that much. There were probably 25 percent that were really active.
THIBODEAUX: That just kind of came later. So the Viva Kennedy was targeted for, like you say, San Antonio and the Valley?
JURECKA: Um hmm, and Los Angeles and places of that nature where there were pretty good groups.
THIBODEAUX: Was Vice—he wasn’t vice president yet—was Senator Johnson visible in this area during the campaign?
JURECKA: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was.
THIBODEAUX: Was that the campaign where he ended in Wimberley?
JURECKA: In Stonewall in 1960?
THIBODEAUX: In Stonewall?
JURECKA: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: I know there was a story about—I think it was that election—where he wanted to end it on campus, but I think it was Dr. Flowers that didn’t want to politicize the campus, and he kind of told him to end it somewhere else.
JURECKA: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Have you heard that?
JURECKA: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Okay, well, can you tell me about that?
JURECKA: No, I just heard it too. I don’t know that it was true, but Dr. Flowers was pretty strict on stuff. I mean, he went by the book on everything.
THIBODEAUX: Going back to when you worked in Senator Johnson’s office, were you involved in any bills or were there any priority legislation going on at that time?
JURECKA: Yeah. I wasn’t involved, but there were. I mean, like the highway bill and so was the interstate bill and quite a few bills, yeah. But I had no legislative work as far as that went toward it.
THIBODEAUX: Can you tell me again what years that was that you worked in Washington?
JURECKA: Well, I was trying to think of that to be sure. (laughs) It’s ’56 to about ’58 and right in that category.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember anything about the 1957 civil rights bill, negotiations on that?
JURECKA: No, I don’t.
THIBODEAUX: Pat Murdock said that you have some memorabilia of Johnson. I’m not sure if it was from then or from the campaigns. I was wondering if you can describe or just remember what things that you may have, mementos from the Johnson era?
JURECKA: Actually, I have more Kennedy than I do Johnson stuff. (laughs) I have busts of he and Bobby and things of that nature that people have given me as gifts. From Johnson it’s just buttons and tie clips and pens and plates and things of that nature and pictures. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Oh. Any pictures of you and Senator Johnson together?
JURECKA: One only I believe and I don’t know where it is.
THIBODEAUX: Well, that would be very valuable if you could find that sometime. (Jurecka laughs) I know she would love to see that.
You mentioned contact with the Johnson family after you left. Any elaboration on that?
JURECKA: No. Not much of that, no.
THIBODEAUX: You worked around the country it seems like. Did you get any feedback from the different cities you were in about how they felt about Johnson? Did he have supporters across the country? Or were there areas where he was not liked?
JURECKA: In 1960 I went to work in New York City with a publishing company there, and then I went on to Boston to a publishing company there. Of course, while I was in Boston it was strictly very much Kennedy land, and there wasn’t much criticism at all as far as that went. Yeah, and everybody was a Kennedy supporter in the office there.
THIBODEAUX: I read that you were involved in preparing the fiftieth anniversary history for Southwest Texas.
JURECKA: Yeah. That’s the one that’s in the yearbook in the Pedagog.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, okay.
So did LBJ play a part in that history of the institution?
JURECKA: I probably mentioned it, of course. Naturally I would have. I don’t remember that history that well to this point. I haven’t read it in years.
THIBODEAUX: I haven’t read it either. (Both laugh) I’m sorry. That’s what I better do.
I know you’ve been to some of the LBJ picnics at the university.
JURECKA: Yeah. Probably all of them actually, and they used to be pretty exclusive. Now they’re public—when Hardesty started it, it was just the people who had really worked with Johnson and knew Johnson and things of that nature and a few select people. And then it moved on to faculty and so forth, and now it’s faculty, staff, and friends, and it’s just a circus, to be honest with you. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: So did many of Johnson’s associates, colleagues come to those picnics?
JURECKA: They used to but there’re very few of them left. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Yeah, that’s true.
JURECKA: When Hardesty had it, we had the first two or three, there were about thirty or forty actually people who had associated with him either at school when they were in school with him or had worked for him in General Service Administration or something, had been employed by him or he got them employed, I should say. And then sent people who were on his staff at one time.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember anybody in particular that you knew from those picnics?
JURECKA: There was Sid Hughes, Walter Richter—I can’t think of really who they were.
THIBODEAUX: Since you were on the alumni board for forty years, was there any attempt to always try to keep Johnson’s association with the university public?
JURECKA: Oh yes. That’s why we started the LBJ Award. The women had had an award, it’s Miss Beretta, who’d been on the board of regents, started this Sallie Beretta Award and it went to the outstanding woman student. And so we thought that we would get one for the men and call it the LBJ Award. And we got a donation from the Johnson family to start that.
THIBODEAUX: Have you had any association with the Johnson family in that capacity, in the capacity of their interest in Southwest Texas?
JURECKA: No, but Luci and I have talked a couple of times on things, and they’re very interested. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: In maintaining—
JURECKA: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: —a relationship?
JURECKA: Yeah. Um hmm. Right.
THIBODEAUX: How do you think the Johnson connection has helped or hindered the university? Do you think it’s made a difference?
JURECKA: I think it’s helped the university for sure. Yeah. And they really haven’t used it as much as they could, I believe, in some cases. Yes.
THIBODEAUX: How do you think it’s helped the university?
JURECKA: Well, I think it’s a tribute that you have a school that a president graduated from, and I think it’s helped in recruiting and I’m sure in some ways it’s helped in foundation grants and things of this nature too, especially when he was in office.
THIBODEAUX: I’m asking this of everybody because this is an opinion question. Thinking of the Central Texas area, what do you think is Johnson’s greatest legacy to this area?
JURECKA: Electric service.
THIBODEAUX: Good. I’m not saying you particularly, but in your family, did they live in this area? I know you had that place before electricity was widespread.
JURECKA: Well, we had electricity but the Hill Country didn’t. I’ve never been without electricity in my lifetime. But further back in Johnson City and Blanco and that area there, rural electrification in the rural areas wasn’t there. I’ve always lived in more or less a city or a town where there was that type of electricity, power.
THIBODEAUX: I think even in Wimberley so close to San Marcos, they didn’t get electricity until that whole area—rural area was electrified.
JURECKA: Yeah. I think that was the biggest achievement in my opinion of his including anything in the presidency, doing that.
THIBODEAUX: Well, thank you. That’s the questions I have. Do you have anything else you’d like to offer, share?
JURECKA: No, I really don’t. If that’s all the questions you have, that’s all I have too.
THIBODEAUX: Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Jurecka.
JURECKA: Surely.
(End of interview)