Oral History Transcript - Lola Cheatham - April 8, 1986
Interview with Lola Cheatham
Interviewer: Jill Dahnert
Transcriber: Jill Dahnert
Date of Interview: April 8, 1986
Location: Mrs. Cheatham’s Home, 1537 Belvin Street, San Marcos, TX
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Begin Tape 1, Side 1
Jill Dahnert: This is Jill Dahnert. The date is April 8, 1986. I’m interviewing Lola Cheatham in her home on 1537 Belvin Street in San Marcos, Texas. I’ve explained to Mrs. Cheatham all about this interview, and she has signed a release stating this interview can be deposited in the Southwest Texas State Library. Mrs. Cheatham, do you understand everything I said to you about the interview and about the release?
Lola Cheatham: Yes, I do.
Dahnert: Mrs. Cheatham, you said you were born in Caldwell County and attended elementary school there? Could you tell me something about attending school there?
Cheatham: It’s been so long, I just—just a little one-room schoolhouse at that particular time—later on, and we had, oh, I don’t know exactly how many students there were but not very many—about, oh, I’d say maybe sixteen or maybe less.
Dahnert: There were students from all different grades?
Cheatham: Yes.
Dahnert: All in the same class?
Cheatham: From the first on up to the—I guess the sixth grade. I’m not sure—it’s been so long ago. But I would say yes, from the first to the seventh grade, usually they weren’t like that, from the first to the seventh grade. And we carried our lunch in lunch boxes, you know. We didn’t have no cafeteria like they have today. We carried our lunch in a lunch box. And we—school would take up at nine o’clock, and we’d be out by—at least by four o’clock and then I’d—we didn’t live very far from this little school. It was easy for me to walk down there. My teacher was Miss Julia Buford. And, oh, she taught all those classes there.
Dahnert: How did she teach all the grades in the same place?
Cheatham: I don’t know how—I don’t know how, but there was just only one teacher. And she would just have, well, I guess she must not’ve given more than thirty minutes to each class, you know. I don’t think it would be an hour. But that has been so long ago. That’s what they did in those days. One teacher—little one-room schoolhouse. There was only one teacher. So—as I said, after I graduated from there, well, let’s see, there were how many of us in school—my sister Willie, Susie, Sam—I had a brother named Sam, and Cole, my younger sister. And we all—there were others, you know—but there weren’t any more than about sixteen usually in a class—maybe sometimes more. Because you know how people moved to different places like that. I was, I say went to school there for six years. Then my mother moved up here to San Marcos, and then I attended Dunbar from the age thirteen on until I graduated.
Dahnert: Why did your family move to San Marcos?
Cheatham: Oh, well there was an oilfield down there with just—you know, it didn’t have any schooling, they just—oh—people just got away from there because—on account of the oil and gas, it’s such an—we moved here to San Marcos. I’ve been here ever since. I haven’t lived any place else. I don’t know how many years.
Dahnert: What was it like attending high school here? Was it a big school?
Cheatham: Yes, we had a big school here. We had, well, at that time, they had a principal and about five other teachers. There was from the seventh grade up on to tenth grade. We really didn’t go through the twelfth grade here. It went up to the tenth grade here, so we got taught that; then we had others that taught first and second grade—Ola Coleman, she was a very good teacher. We had Mattie Terrell—she was a—she kind of taught physical ed.—I’d call it physical ed. And she’d sing and train the children how to sing and go through the exercises. We had an English teacher—I’m trying to think of her name now—
Dahnert: What kind of subjects did you have to take?
Cheatham: We had history and geography and algebra—arithmetic—I think on what I did have some algebra. Then in the tenth grade we had algebra. Biology and—let’s see what else did we have. We had spelling, you know. We had to have spelling, too—oh, we had homemaking—teaching you how to sew and cook. We had a teacher there, Miss Smith. I can’t think of her name; it was Smith.
Dahnert: After you graduated from high school, you went to Texas College in Tyler?
Cheatham: Tyler, yes. For two years I went there. There I had what you had in college. I had English, education. I had a teacher from—my English teacher was—let’s see if I can think of her name now. She was from South Carolina—I’m trying to think of her name now. She’s from Darlington, South Carolina. She was a very pretty woman. I can’t think of her name now.
Dahnert: What was it like going to college then? It was different than it is now—
Cheatham: Oh yes, there’s quite a difference in college then. I took, as I say, I took chemistry and English, and I had French. I never learned much French, but I do know a few words in French. And—what did I say? English and chemistry and history.
Dahnert: Where did you stay? Was it dorms?
Cheatham: Oh yes, I stayed in a dorm. We had dormitories. We had a matron to see after all the girls. Then we’d have socials at the weekends there on campus. We had a football team, a good one, too. We had—we’d get on buses and go to the games just like they do now—it reminds me of that when we’d get ready to go to the games down to Marshall and wherever they played, you know. We’d go on the bus to cheer them on to victory. We had a very good time. Let’s see, what else did I take—history, mathematics. I can’t think of any other subjects I took. But anyhow, we had a good time, always. We always had a good time. Then we had—the food wasn’t so good to me, so I got permission from my mother to let me go out in the town and eat. So I’d go out each day and get a lunch and eat my meal. And then in the evening, then I’d go early and eat out at that cafeteria. So I had some very good teachers, and it was very beautiful down there. I can remember so many of them—President Glass. He had one arm, somehow his arm got—it was cut off, and he was the president. And—then I had Mrs. Gray—well, she was a matron. Well, you know she was—she was a teacher, too. And then I had Mrs. Anna May Johnson. She was my—the last time I attended there she was the matron. They’ve all, I think they passed on, they’re all gone. And I had Professor Fowler who taught Latin. I didn’t have a class, but he taught Latin and he also taught—I think he taught history too. Dr. Red, he was from New York City. He taught, well, he taught education; that’s what he called it, they called it at the time. I had Dr. Hunter, he taught chemistry.
Dahnert: What was it like in the dorms? Was the matron really strict?
Cheatham: That one was Mrs. Brigg was very strict. We had to have lights off at a certain time and everybody—she checked all the rooms to see if everybody was there. And then Mrs. Johnston—she wasn’t quite so strict; she was very sweet because she had a daughter there. We all had a good time—it was real fun then. But I’m sure it’s much different now. And we had lots of fun. We could go—we had to do our laundry on Saturday and get the beautician to fix your hair and everything like that. We had that too. I just never was much on ironing—I always had a girl do ironing for me. And she was very good. And I had my hairdresser was—as I said, we’d go down there, we couldn’t do it in our rooms. Sometimes we’d have, you know, electrical equipment, but she didn’t want you doing it in the rooms because the laundry was the place where you had to go and get it done. There was a place down there separate from the washing—the laundromat. We had to do all our hair down there. And then we would—we had three meals a day. And to get breakfast, you’d have to get up early and get out, get down there for breakfast or else you wouldn’t get any. So, and then at noon, I’d go to lunch. In the evening, we’d have our evening meal. We had some very good quartets, and they would go off to sing. They came here once to sing. They toured here and then when school was out during the summer. Then we had a good football team. So, as I say, we’d go off to the games when they were playing and Marshall and surrounding towns down there.
Dahnert: What was dating like?
Cheatham: Yes, you could date. If they wanted to come see you, they had a place down there where he could come see you. A special room down there. We had our dates, and then they’d have dances, you know, and parties like that on the Saturdays. Most they’d have that weekend on Friday night. If he wanted to come up and see you, he could. Sometimes, during the daytime, if you wanted to, he could come in to see you, but mostly it was, you know, weekend when we’d have a date because they’d think you ought to be applying yourself to your studies, which you should do—sometimes you didn’t do. But you should be doing that. So there was—we had a very good time. I haven’t been down there—I’ve been wanting to get down there to visit some, you know.
So many of them graduated and went on to teach on different schools. I had one young man in my class—John Paul Jones. He knew something about everything, really. He was a Phi Beta Kappa. He has been—he was President of—now I can’t think of what little school that was he got to be president down there, of a college. A very, very brilliant young man. You could ask him about most anything, and he could tell you. He was just real smart. We had a beautiful quartet of young men, oh, they traveled around during spring, I mean, after school in the summer. And go sing in different places. People didn’t have the privileges—that children have now—you didn’t go out without a chaperone. But nowadays, you go where you want to go. Don’t you go mostly where you want to go? Well, you couldn’t do it at that time. You had to have a—they’d check your room—everyone had to be in their room at a certain hour. If you were not there, you were in trouble. But most of them were. They were very good. So we had a lot of fun going from room to room, and my mother—I used to write and tell her, “Oh, I can’t stand this food—send me something.” And she’d send me—of course, get a box down there, and it would keep. She’d send me pecans and fruit and cake too. Beause it wasn’t far from here—Tyler’s about three hundred and something miles. So we’d get that pretty quick. And so, at Christmas time, they’d always come and get me—sometimes I’d come home on the train. They had a little town down there called Troup. That’s where the trains where we’d get on to come home. Of course, as you know, the railroad—we don’t have no trains like they used too. Only Amtrak, I mean. But we’d always come home for Christmas and go back. So it was a lot of fun—much different from what it is now.
Dahnert: You worked for Southwest Texas State for a long time?
Cheatham: For sixteen years and Mrs. Craddock, the mayor, she was my, she was over me.
Dahnert: Tell me about Emmie Craddock. Was she easy to work for?
Cheatham: Oh, she was. She gave me the keys—she said, “Now here’s the keys. You run it like you want to.” So I did. She was telling me the other week, she said I worked up there, she said out of those sixteen years, she said we, there was about $100,000 made in that faculty room. They paid me—I didn’t work for the state, I worked for the faculty. In Flowers Hall, you know they still have Flowers Hall?
Dahnert: Yes.
Cheatham: What do they have in there now?
Dahnert: It’s the modern language department now.
Cheatham: Yes. Well, yes, I know. Well, as I say, she was very easy to work for. She just would trust me, and I would always, you know, do what was right. Dr. Erickson—he would call me—he was the one who paid me all the time, Dr. Maurice Erickson. He’s retired—he was head of the economics department at that particular time.
Dahnert: What did you do exactly in the lounge?
Cheatham: I would make coffee and sell doughnuts, and then finally we got where we had milk, and Mr. Simon—Simon Baker used to bring the doughnuts to us every day. And I’d make about, I’m sure I’d make at least three hundred cups of coffee a day. I think I had four pots and all of them held ninety cups. I didn’t do nothing but sit in there and keep the cups and everything ready for them—put them over where they could get them. I enjoyed it—I never had a cross word with anybody up there that I know of. I’m sure there’re not many people up there—many of them have graduated. I heard Mr. Sewell, he died the other week. Let’s see, I started under President—Dr. Flowers.
Dahnert: I’m sure you had some regular customers that came in every day—
Cheatham: Oh, yes, I did. When it was [unintelligible]. I started under Dr. Flowers. Oh, yes, we got to be so big in there sometimes. I haven’t been up there since ’75. And I said I was going in there. They always say, We miss you, we wish you’d come to see us. I just enjoyed everybody I used to work with and, as I say, I would sell coffee and doughnuts and soft drinks. Mostly making money off the coffee—most of them drank coffee and tea, too. They drank tea. As I say, I started under Dr. Flowers—he retired and passed on. Then I believe Dr. McCrocklin came—Dr. McCrocklin.
Dahnert: Who was your favorite president while you were working for the university? Who did the best job?
Cheatham: Oh, I guess I’d say Dr. Flowers did—he was there longer. Dr. McCrocklin served about two years, four years, and he had to leave—he resigned. Dr. Jones, he was left, and he stayed there a short while and then went to Memphis State. I believe that’s where he went. Then Dr. Smith came in, and I retired during his administration.
Dahnert: What was Dr. Flowers like as a president?
Cheatham: Oh, he was nice, yes, he was nice. We got along beautifully. He was real nice. Under that administration, that’s when Dana—she was the first black student there. Dana Smith—she was a Smith. Dana Smith was the first black student to enroll there.
Dahnert: When was she enrolled—about what time?
Cheatham: Oh, let’s see. Well, during integration. Let’s see when that was. During ’64 or ’65, I’m not sure, but anyhow during integration. That’s when she enrolled. Dr. Flowers said Lola, he’d been trying to get an integrated school; he said, “It wasn’t my fault.” He told me one day, “It wasn’t my fault that they didn’t get it because I was all for it.” Finally, she got enrolled—she was the first black student here now, and she taught for a while, and then she—I don’t know what she’s doing now. But she was a very, very smart student. And from then, you know, how it’s grown up now, there’s a lot of them up there now—I don’t know how many are up there now, but it certainly has increased since I was there. But there were—they even have two black [professors] while I was up there.
Dahnert: How did the college react when Dana Smith enrolled? Was there a lot of protest?
Cheatham: No, there wasn’t. I didn’t notice any. There wasn’t any protest—they didn’t seem to mind it. Then, as I say, the first two black teachers there was—I can’t remember her name to save my—their name. He was in the chemistry department, and she was in Homemaking there with Mrs. Coleman—I’m trying to see if there’s anybody up there that’s in the Homemaking—in the—I’m not sure. I’m trying to think of anybody in the homemaking department—there’s so many of them every time. Mrs. Smith—is there a Smith up there any more—a lady—I think she was there, and then in physical ed.—he was in physical ed., because as you know, the students were not allowed to come in there—because that was just faculty and staff only. That’s what I was working for. The secretaries and all, they could come in and teachers. Students had a separate lounge. So as I say, I got along beautifully with everybody there—never had a cross word.
Dahnert: What was it like at SWT in the sixties? You were working there then—
Cheatham: In the sixties. It was a lot different in the sixties than in the—there were so many more faculty members added—that I didn’t know them. At one time, when I just—I knew just about everybody up there. Now the only somebody I know up there is Mrs.—Dr. Grayson—she teaches English, and Miss Brunson, she was my head department at one time, and before she became head—Dr. Walsh, Dr. Rodney Walsh [probably meant Robert Walts]—is he still there, do you know him? He was department head, too, before Miss Smith, Brunson, I mean. Then Mr. Braffet—those are all English professors that I knew. There’s another one up there. I can’t think of her name. When you get older, you know—you forget. And Mr. Archer—Ben Archer.
[A portion has been erased here at the request of the interviewee]
Dahnert: What about streaking? I’ve heard some interesting stories—
Cheatham: They did that, yes. They did that—but I did, they sure did streak up there. They never did—somehow, I never did see it. It always happened after hours. Or I was always in there—I didn’t get out too much. I entered there in the daytime, sometime I’d go up there, it’d be mild weather, and it would turn cold, well, I never have to—I’d carry a lunch. I used to carry my sandwich. You know, when you making something, you can drink it free, so I did that, and I drank so much coffee. Now, I don’t even—I drink Sanka but not any coffee. But everything was, you know, as I say, I didn’t notice any demonstrations very much.
[At this point, the tape has been erased approximately from counter numbers (333) to (380) at the request of Mrs. Cheatham.]
Dahnert: Who was the most memorable while you were working? You sound like you knew everybody in the university, just about.
Cheatham: Yes. Well, the most memorable one would be Mrs. Craddock and Dr. Erickson. They were the ones that—you know. And I just had my way when I would go downtown—oh, yes, she was as sweet as she could be with me sometimes. She was very busy—she didn’t come up there over there too much and the latter—latter part of these sessions she was busy because she taught the honors students. So, she didn’t come over there very much. And I could call her and tell her we need coffee, and she’d say, “Go down to Wuest’s and get it and sign your name. I’ve told them to let you have it.” So, I just, you know, had very good. Whatever I saw in there that I wanted extra to put in. Sometimes they’d say, Lola, do you have an apple. Snd I’d say, “Oh no, I don’t have no apples,” but I’d buy gum and little things like that. As I said, we had doughnuts and the Lance man—the Lance Company. I guess you know—you’ve seen that somewhere in these laundromats. You buy cookies and mints and little things like that. There must be someone else representing them now—Mr. Gray, it used to be. And Mr. Simon, the baker. Whenever we would register, I used to have to move all of my equipment down to the library on that eleventh floor. Every time that we’d register so, oh, the coffee they would drink; oh, they would drink coffee. So I noticed they don’t register that anymore—where do y’all register?
Dahnert: In Strahan Coliseum.
Cheatham: Somebody said, some people say “Oscar Stra-han,” but it’s “Strahan”—that’s the way he pronounced it. Oscar Strahan. I think he has passed on. And I believe his wife is out [in] the nursing home. I think she is out there.
Dahnert: How has the university changed—I mean, obviously it’s much bigger than when you were there.
Cheatham: Oh, well, as I say, it was, I don’t know, five or six thousand when I went there in ’29. Oh, not ’29; in the fifties, yes, I went there in the fifties. [Stops to figure when she began working for the university]. And I went there—it was in ’59. Oh, there’s been quite a change, as I say, when I went there in ’59 and started working. I knew everybody on the campus—I mean all the teachers. I knew all of them. And it has grown so until I don’t know exactly how many—what the number was.
Pause in recording
[Here the tape was turned off for several minutes so Mrs. Cheatham could answer the phone.]
Dahnert: We stopped the tape because the phone rang. We’ve been talking about the university lounge and the faculty of Southwest.
Cheatham: And, as I say, when I went there, I think there were five or six thousand there—now there could have been more. But my, it has grown to about I’d say, oh, four times that—what is it? Around nineteen thousand? Twenty thousand?
Dahnert: It’s around twenty thousand.
Cheatham: Yes, oh, it’s grown quite a bit because, as I said, when I left there in ’75, I didn’t know a lot of those faculty members. But when I just went there, I knew just about all of them. And it really has grown up there, as I say, I haven’t been there—do they have a lounge in the—they still have one. Do you know who’s working there? I mean the person. It is [unintelligible]?
Dahnert: I have no idea.
Cheatham: All of the buildings they was building—some of them I never got to go to. The Band Building, they called it—I never went there. I just stayed right there in that one particular spot and just didn’t go around, so, I had said I was going up there and see, but they’ve done quite a bit of building since I was there in ’75. Of course, they started before then, but it really has grown now. So do they have places for everybody to stay now that they’ve taken over the Academy—bought the Academy?
Dahnert: Just about.
Cheatham: I know some few stay in apartments they have. I guess they’d rather be in apartments because you can have your own way when you’re in—not in them. So, it really has grown since I was there.
Dahnert: You’ve been in San Marcos most of your life?
Cheatham: Most of my life. Yes, I sure have. It’d be about—let’s see—[stops to figure how many years]. It’s been most of my life, I sure have. I’m trying to see how many. Let’s see—1923—oh, fifty-two years. And I remember when they just had—didn’t have no—I’m trying to think of what all they didn’t have. Of course, we didn’t have but probably one policeman. Now you’ve got to have many. We didn’t have red lights, and I don’t know—just sheriff. Everything has just changed.
Dahnert: Do you think the university has helped San Marcos?
Cheatham: Definitely, it has. The university has really helped San Marcos. When you all are gone, we surely do miss you. When you have spring break, it looks like a ghost town, looking up on that hill, you know. And town—the whole town looks that way, so it really has helped San Marcos. And then after President Johnson got to be, you know, President, well, that helped it too, you know—LBJ’s school because he was a graduate of Southwest Texas State too. So, it really has grown because I don’t know how many people work up there at the university now. Some I recognize their face, but I can’t remember their names. It really has grown. Would you have an idea of how many are up there on the faculty?
Dahnert: I have no idea. Did you hear a lot about Lyndon Johnson when he was in school here?
Cheatham: Yes, some. I remember some when he was in school here. I’m not sure there’s been a lot written about him here, has there not. But I didn’t know him. He came—he was up there. I went to see him down at Strahan Gym, I believe it was—the gym. That’s where he was. I’m trying to think what occasion that was when he was here. I don’t remember the occasion, but I know he was there several times.
Dahnert: What was the reaction in town when he was elected?
Cheatham: Oh, they were glad; yes, they were glad to have a graduate of Southwest Texas State to be President. They were really elated over that. Whenever he’d come, he’d always get a nice reception, everybody’d turn out. Of course, they—guards people to look after him. They would—certain places would be closed on account of he was going to be here. It was real exciting. So that helped too. It really helped the college grow from a college to a university. It really has helped San Marcos. A big help at that particular time.
Dahnert: How has the town itself changed—I mean other than just getting bigger?
Cheatham: We’ve got more things in town than we’ve ever had. More business and better business. We’ve got Springtown out there. They had to get out because there wasn’t enough room; you know, they moved out there. JCPenney used to be right down on LBJ Drive as you get to the second red light. We’ve had new stores added, and they’ve made some improvement, you know, in the town. There’s buildings being renovated and some torn down. Lot of apartments. It just has grown by leaps and bounds since the sixties—quite a change.
Dahnert: What was it like growing up here—going to school here?
Cheatham: It was—we had a good time for the things we had—baseball and basketball, and we used to have county fairs—they don’t have them anymore, but they have kind of a stock show. Have you been out there to the place? I’ve been out there maybe one or twice. Then they have the—oh, what is that we have every year when they have that cook-off?
Dahnert: Chilympiad?
Cheatham: Chilympiad—yes, we have that. As I say, right out on this road here going to Hunter. There used to be fairgrounds—they don’t have any more fairs anymore. So, it has just grown by leaps and bounds.
Dahnert: When you were in school, did the girls get to do the same things as the boys, or were there a lot of things you couldn’t do because you were a girl?
Cheatham: Yes, there were a lot of things you couldn’t do as a student—surely couldn’t. Well, I had a good mother; she was strict. My father passed when I was very small, about seven years old. And she—I had older sister and brothers, they helped to see after me, and so—she was very strict, a good mother. We got to go where we wanted to go because my mother had a car. I had learned to drive when I was about twelve or thirteen years old. So we got to go where we wanted to go, but I mean—she had some restrictions. You was supposed to be home at a certain hour, and she never had any trouble with us. As I said, my older sister and brothers helped to see after us. She was like a man and a woman. She was strict on some—we had to do right, but you could still could go and have, you know, we’d have fun, but we couldn’t stay out as late as the children do now, you know. There were not as many things to go to as there are now, you know. We had to—we had little parties, and we had a little club and things like that, but it was different from what it is now.
Dahnert: What couldn’t you do because you were a girl? Like you couldn’t play sports or you couldn’t—
Cheatham: I just didn’t play sports—I didn’t. I took homemaking. I never did play sports, but generally, there were some in my group that did play sports. My husband liked to play football. My brother—he played football. And my son, he played football for a while, but his back was giving him a lot of problems. So, we got more schools and more children. My little girl attends the—what’s the school—elementary school down here. I’m trying to think of the name of it. It’s right down from the high school, and now I can’t remember—you know as you get older, you kind of forget. Anyhow, I go pick her up every day at three o’clock. So, the schools have improved—they’re larger—they’re more of them, and still they say they don’t have room for the children. And I can’t think of the school. I know there’s Travis out there—and one school is named for one of the coaches here—Goodnight. Owen Goodnight. He was a high school coach and—it’s a shame I can’t think of the school my little granddaughter goes to, and I go out there every day. And I know Lamar, and I know Goodnight and the high school, and they still don’t have enough room for them—it’s growing so. So they’re building another little school below the high school. And I was thinking my granddaughter was going to get to attend that, but she won’t. She’ll be going out to—to Travis. This is Lamar, and this is Travis and Goodnight—I’m trying to think of—Bowie. Maybe’s she’s going to Bowie. I can’t think. But things have really changed—the schooling, more people, and it’s one more thing—they ain’t [unintelligible]. They didn’t have things they had when, you know, before the sixties, before the seventies. I say, they started in the ’70-something, ’75. It was out there when I retired from the university. So everything has changed here and like the Job Corps—that’s—my son has been working out there about fourteen–fifteen years. His wife has been there longer than he has. And I have a niece—my nephew’s wife—she’s out there. Her husband was out there at one time.
Dahnert: Do you think that’s helped San Marcos too?
Cheatham: It has helped—it surely has. It really has helped San Marcos because—well, now I tell you, that’s actually in Caldwell County where the Job Corps is—they have to pay taxes there, I’m sure. That has helped San Marcos.
But of course, Southwest Texas has really been the one that has helped San Marcos—it really has helped it more than anything. That’s because—the other time, as I say, spring break and between semesters and when you finish the spring semester start into summer. When they’re gone, you can sure miss them. I know the merchants miss them. It just makes better business ever since the university has started growing. When it got to be university status, I don’t know what the number was before. The university—it certainly has helped San Marcos. It really put San Marcos on the map, I’d say.
Dahnert: What did you hear about the university when you were growing up here—when you were a student here? It was much smaller—
Cheatham: Oh, yes, it was so small until really—let’s see, the first, I’m not sure, Dr. Evans, I don’t know. He was our first president. But I never did know him—I never did know Dr. Evans. Of course, naturally I didn’t work up there, and I didn’t go up there. But it has really grown. But it seems like to me, there wasn’t too much known until President Johnson, you know, became President. I bet—that helped it a lot. I guess, you see a little country man from up in Johnson City—you ever been to Johnson City? You like it there—it’s pretty up there. As I said, he was the one, seemed like he put San Marcos on the map. As far as, you know, students and business and everything, it really helped. As I say, I didn’t know President Evans because, well, I didn’t, I guess—you know, everybody should know whose head of everything in every town, but I didn’t. I just didn’t know him. There’s been just such a change. We didn’t have nowhere to go—there were—I don’t know is there any theatres in town open now? Which ones?
Dahnert: Yes, there’s two of them.
Cheatham: Where are they?
Dahnert: There’s one on LBJ and there’s one out by Wal-Mart—in that mall out there.
Cheatham: Oh, yes, out there. So we’ve got supermarkets. We didn’t have nothing but just little old one—one little old store. They used to deliver. They don’t deliver in groceries any more. There isn’t any little stores anymore—Merle’s was the last one, which was there up in—down in—where the Colloquium is down there. She had a grocery store. Well, now everything is supermarkets. You used to—I used to, could buy from these little stores. Well, I could charge it until my husband got paid by the week or paid it. But now, if you don’t have money, you can’t buy nothing at, you know, HEB and Safeway and—none of these places here. We’ve got three supermarkets—four. HEB and Kroger and Safeway. So we’ve got three supermarkets, and as I say, everything was around the square now has moved out. There are no grocery stores down there. At least there used to be—on the corner used to be LJ Daly. They were there the longest—most of them are all dead. One’s living in Wimberley, I believe. But things are growing by leaps and bounds. I’d say four times as many people as there were here, well—I was asking. Mrs. Craddock said that there were about thirty-three thousand then, while way back in the sixties, and on back down through the thirties and twenties, there were just about four or five thousand people here, if that many. So there’ve been lots of changes here.
Dahnert: You married in the thirties and had children then. What was it like having children then?
Cheatham: Well, oh my, it was, it was different—the doctors would—of course, my boy was born in the hospital. My daughter could’ve been—I should’ve been—I should’ve—she should’ve been born there, but she was at home. I had the doctor with me. You know, they used to have midwives—I was born—my mother had a midwife when I was born, but now we have doctors and hospitals. My boy was born in Luling. I had a little doctor down in [unintelligible]. I’m sure you haven’t been down through there. And he was born in Luling in a hospital so, but most of the, oh, the people you take from seventy-five years on back, they were born with midwives. They didn’t use doctors too much. Sometimes they’d call in a doctor in serious cases, but most of them were born by midwives.
Dahnert: Was it frightening not having her in the hospital?
Cheatham: Well, I think I lost my first baby by not being in the hospital, I guess. I just didn’t—you know, in the hospital they can give you something to relax, and I couldn’t relax, I was just—oh, I was so sick. My daughter—she was born at home, but I had—you know, they say the second time is easier than the first. I don’t know if it is because giving birth is hard either way for me. So everything has changed here. We don’t have—we have the supermarkets, and we have the, and the hospitals—right up here on Belvin by—oh, got a sorority there, I believe that it what it is.
Dahnert: It’s a fraternity.
Cheatham: Fraternity, yes. And that used to be the old hospital, so they have the hospital, it’s grown. Everything around here has just grown, and if somebody—we used to have one-way streets. Now you can’t go where you want to. You used to could go up Austin Street, I mean Guadalupe Street. Now you can just come down it, you can’t go up so the streets—everything has changed.
End of interview