Oral History Transcript - Celestino Mendez - May 1, 2008
Interview with Celestino Mendez
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: May 1, 2008
Location: San Marcos, Texas
Interviewee: Celestino Mendez – A 1957 industrial arts graduate, Mr. Mendez is a native and current resident of San Marcos who has been a leader, particularly among the Hispanic community. He continues his involvement with the American GI Forum.
BARBARA THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is May 1, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Celestino Mendez at San Marcos, Texas.
Mr. Mendez, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will you also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or a no?
CELESTINO MENDEZ: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Thank you very much.
Did you grow up in San Marcos or the area surrounding San Marcos?
MENDEZ: I grew up—I was born right up the street—in the hospital someplace—and my residence became 600 St. Guadalupe Street, which was the edge of town at the time.
THIBODEAUX: When you lived here growing up, were Hispanic and the white community—were they integrated at that time?
MENDEZ: Not so. Well, if we’re talking about the ‘60s, by that time it was the law of the land that integration was not part of the United States’ mode of operandi, you know. But in fact, there was many vestiges or many active acts of discrimination at the time. So I’m talking—you know, I was old enough in the ‘50s, and as a matter of fact, I came back from the service to finish my schooling in 1956-57, and when I got out with a bachelor’s degree, there was still a vast amount of separation or discrimination or whatever you want to call it.
THIBODEAUX: What about the schools when you were growing up—elementary?
MENDEZ: When I was growing up, I went to the first six grades at segregated—at least Mexicano or Mexican schools, you know, that was the term then. The blacks were segregated in one through twelve at Dunbar on Comal Street then, and of course—that’s a sort of funny. The Anglo community almost didn’t have a school because the high school was burned down in the late ‘30s or ‘40s and was not rebuilt. The university had a lot of space—the college at the time had a lot of space and made the buildings available to the independent school district for education—and Laboratory School they called it. So Campus Elementary was there at the university grounds, and the high school we had at the education building—at that time was the education building. That’s what the high school—and that’s where I went to high school even in ’45—what—to ’49.
THIBODEAUX: So the high school wasn’t segregated?
MENDEZ: No, the high school was not segregated at least for the Mexicanos. The blacks were segregated, and the unfortunate thing about it was that we were really not accepted by either the teachers’ staff or the dominant attendants, so we suffered. A lot of us think we were actively pushed out of school, that’s why the dropout rate was so great.
THIBODEAUX: So you weren’t encouraged to finish high school or even to look at colleges?
MENDEZ: Oh, no. I mean, who—the only encouragement I got was from my parents, and of course, the system didn’t want educated Mexicanos.
THIBODEAUX: So did they try to segregate the Mexican Americans into maybe vocational classes?
MENDEZ: Yeah. That’s traditionally the way, you know, that you have two tracks, and of course, everything has evolved. Counseling—the counseling was not an organized effort for either group, but the teachers being Anglo themselves, would select the students—only encouraged the students that were talented to go on to a school and maybe help them in the scheduling. I’m not aware of it, but I know that most of us Hispanics were tracked into industrial arts and less—or vocational type activities because that’s sort of what we were good at. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Was there an awareness at that time?
MENDEZ: Not really. I mean, I learned it more later in life when you became—you opened your eyes and wonder. But there was—the teachers were hostile. I can remember one or two teachers that I really praise and enjoy, but they were the exception not the rule.
THIBODEAUX: When were schools in San Marcos integrated?
MENDEZ: I think in ’57 or ’58. The first step was made in integrating the blacks. Dunbar High School was brought in maybe in ’60, I don’t remember the year, but sometime between 1958 and ’61 or ’2, the high school part of Dunbar was brought into the high school a lot except that they were not allowed to participate in physical—in extracurricular activities only thing. I’m sure you’re aware of this.
THIBODEAUX: So it took a lot longer to—
MENDEZ: Yeah. And unfortunately, the blacks at that time were good athletes that were not able to compete in basketball or football, and some of them actually went elsewhere to be able to compete. And the teachers of course went to East Texas and other places of employment because they would not hire black teachers.
THIBODEAUX: What about Hispanic teachers? Where there very many in the school system?
MENDEZ: No. That’s another thing. I remember the Hispanic teachers we had were at the South Side—at the school for Hispanics, and there were no Hispanic teachers anywhere in the town that had schools. And of course, it’s weird that the hiring practices were such that you had to be a yes-man to be hired there as a non-dominant individual. And that’s the way it was, you know. If you go along to get along, you’ll make it.
THIBODEAUX: What about politically? Was there representation for the Mexican Americans?
MENDEZ: There was an attempt—in the ‘50s there were attempts at representation that resulted in negative results of both in the voting and in the chastisement by the Anglo community, which were the employers. More than one person lost their jobs because they ventured into politics.
THIBODEAUX: What about discrimination in voting?
MENDEZ: Well, it was all legal, I suppose, but it was—there’s different ways to influence politics. At the time, you had a system that allowed—or insisted that you vote for—you know, you cast your vote for the number of candidates. It was an open—there was two slots available on the school board or in the city council, and usually you had four or five or six candidates. So the top two would be the winners of the election legitimately and all that. But I remember being encouraged—being told that you must vote for the two candidates, and the two that got the most votes—and you must vote—and so the two that got the most votes would win.
So we found out that it was just not necessary. If you had one candidate and you didn’t care anything about the other, you shouldn’t vote for the second one because you’d be giving your vote to the one that might beat your candidate.
THIBODEAUX: So who told you that?
MENDEZ: Hmm?
THIBODEAUX: Or where were you hearing that from that you should do that?
MENDEZ: Well, from books and from people that were interested in more fair ways to get in of it. I was one of the few that got a degree in ’56-‘7 and I decided to stay here—to stay in San Marcos. First of all, if I wanted a teaching job, I’d have to go to South Texas to teach because even in San Antonio, the teacher staff was lily white. In San Antonio where there was a large population of Hispanics, there were very few Hispanics in the system. So you don’t have any role models to go with, and of course, you don’t have any decision-makers that would like to have you.
THIBODEAUX: Were there voting poll taxes?
MENDEZ: Oh yeah. That also. It was not a lot of money, but $1.75 in 1950 was—you know, you need to put food on the table too. And the jobs available to the Hispanics and to the blacks were the menial jobs, and the pay was not really—the laws that exist now were not in existence, so they more or less did what they wanted.
THIBODEAUX: So poll taxes were a detriment to voting, may have stopped some from voting?
MENDEZ: Yeah. Obviously, that’s the purpose of the poll tax. It’s not to raise funds, it’s to limit the participation in our so-called democracy.
THIBODEAUX: I didn’t write it down, but I think it’s the Good Government League. Were they active in San Marcos?
MENDEZ: The Good Government League, as far as I know, was based in San Antonio. They were very strong in keeping the system in San Antonio in control, and they did. Some of the people that noticed that we were getting organized in San Marcos sought the council of the Good Government League and formed a chapter here.
We had by that time formed a loosely organized—this was in the early ‘60s—loosely organized effort that was solidified by forming a political group that had no bones about being identified as such. Our civic organizations had a clause at the time was interpreted as you cannot be involved in political activities because you’d lose your status as a nonprofit group and that kind of stuff.
So we formed an organization and called ourselves Better Citizens for Better Government, and we specifically stated that we were going to change things, were going to get involved in politics. That was, I think, a good start. We had through the American GI Forum, which its purpose is to serve the community and to bring better community relations and all, I think, was we were limited in that many of us that belonged to that just joined the political group, which was BCBG. And it grew at first for a few years until the things got better and then when guys decided learning how to play golf, (laughs) and they’d lost interest in it. But a lot of things were accomplished. In the ‘60s we elected the first city council member Mexicano and also the first Hispanic on the school board, which happened to be me. But then we kept a progression of the people that are interested in change. We had our ups and downs in local politics.
I don’t know what that has to do with LBJ. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Well, it all does, I think, showing especially what San Marcos was like before some of the Great Society programs and the Voting Rights Act.
MENDEZ: See, all those things, of course, were—it was courageous of the leaders at the national level to address those issues. Of course, in my opinion, John Kennedy brought this issue to the forefront and fortunately, with the coalition or coercion of whatever, LBJ was a very powerful senator by then and saw the right thing. He used his influence to realizing what was possible in politics and what is not, made strides to follow-up after the death of John Kennedy. I think they were a good team, and then the follow-up was even greater because the foundation with that had been laid. I’m sure he was involved in that and also the follow-up was very important.
THIBODEAUX: It’s interesting to see the grassroots effort and then on the national scene is—you know, I’m not sure in my own mind how that’s connected, if the national politics changed because of the grassroots movement.
MENDEZ: Yes, I think everything was interconnected. Probably the strongest push to change things was contributed by the blacks in abundance in the several cities in which they were involved in, and the radicalism that was fomented. I give a lot of credit to the acts of that—the ‘60s—‘50s and ‘60s—late ’50, ‘60s because, I mean, enough is enough, so there was potential for revolt.
THIBODEAUX: When you were in college, did you ever see Senator Johnson on campus?
MENDEZ: No, not when I was in school. I was in school—I started in ’49 and went—was interrupted four years by the military and came back in ’55, finished in ’57. I went a short time on a part-time basis working on my master’s. I never got it or followed it up.
But, no. When he came in, but first he was senator—or House of Representatives here at the state level and then became a senator, and then at the national level and then a senator. So I followed him up, but he would come visit and the town got excited because the senator was going to be here. Then he became vice president and then president.
THIBODEAUX: Were you involved or ever saw the campaign going on for the 1960 election for President Kennedy?
MENDEZ: Actually, just as a voter, not—Kennedy was elected with the help of the American GI Forum—I mean, they had organized the Viva Kennedy groups, and wherever influence we jumped on the influence of the Hispanic community, we did. And it was credited with being part of the effort to get Kennedy elected, and of course, as a ticket.
THIBODEAUX: Do you feel that the Kennedy/Johnson ticket actively solicited the Hispanic vote?
MENDEZ: Oh yeah. This was one of the first times that there was an active solicitation and more active participation in the voting. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: I think you’ve answered all of those questions. Excuse me while I go to my next page. I read a Star article. I’m sure you’ve been quoted in many articles, but I was interested in this article written for the University Star back in, I think, 1972. It’s been a while.
MENDEZ: I missed it. (Both laugh)
THIBODEAUX: And I think you were at that time maybe chairman of the Hays County Independent Party?
MENDEZ: Yeah. That was the successor to the Better Citizens for Better Government. The Independent Party was organized by another group, and I guess it was more or less those as the BCBG kind of disbanded or—not officially anyway, but just lost the impetus, many of us joined the Independent Party. The Independent Party was our revolt party against the Hays County Democrats. (Both laugh)
THIBODEAUX: And why was that?
MENDEZ: Because the dominant of both parties was the dominant community, the Anglo community. And between the coalitions—between the liberals at the university, professors and some students, and the Hispanic community and some black leadership, we formed the second Democratic Party, which is the Hays County Independent Party.
THIBODEAUX: Do you think that the Vietnam War directed attention away from the continuing fight or struggle for minority rights?
MENDEZ: Well, I don’t think so. I don’t think that the war itself did. I think it got the youth involved. That’s more or less it was the predecessor to changing the voting age to eighteen and changing the drinking age to eighteen.
THIBODEAUX: Back to the Star article, I found that it was written on October 20—or it was in the paper October 20, 1972. You did make a statement, “In the early ‘60s many gains were made during the Kennedy/Johnson era, but it has been slow since Nixon was elected and began fighting many of the HEW rulings beneficial to the minority communities.” What gains were made during the Kennedy/Johnson years? Do you think especially as the greatest for this area?
MENDEZ: Let me sort of frame my responses here. During the Kennedy/Johnson years, of course, the laws that were passed, you know, the act [Brown v. Board of Education] in 1954 prohibiting discrimination took ten or more years to let it catch fruit, and even now, there’s some communities that don’t abide by it—I don’t know now, but for a long time. So there were those gains—and obviously, you know history. You know that the Republican Party came in and tried to offset all the gains that were made, the change that was made during those—the period of Kennedy and then Johnson. When Nixon came in, he actively tried to disengage or kill the Community Action Agency or—what is it—the Equal Opportunity Act. So that’s what I was talking about. And it’s been a pendulum. The pendulum goes this way one time and then it goes the other way, and that’s the way politics work in the United States.
THIBODEAUX: As a longtime resident and local politician—this is just an opinion question—what do you think is Lyndon Johnson’s greatest legacy for the Central Texas area?
MENDEZ: Oh, I think he made tremendous contributions to the decision-making and the funding opportunities you have developed for the university, for one, and for the whole area. I think the LBJ family has benefited and so has the community that he grew in, and I don’t think it’s limited so much to this area. I mean, he’s made sizable contributions to a better tomorrow for the nation. I think he was one of the great presidents. Many say, and I will tend to agree, that the whole subject of bringing about change was started by the Kennedys and then followed up by Lyndon Johnson. And he didn’t right the vote until he got to the point where he had the power to do it. He was always a politician. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Well, that’s all the questions that I have, but is there anything else about San Marcos politics or change, community that you would like to comment on?
MENDEZ: Not really. I’d just like to—maybe I justify myself. I chose to stay around San Marcos—I guess I could’ve had other opportunities that were there but I didn’t take them, you know, going into federal service or going away to seek my fortune or whatever. But I’m glad I stayed. Whatever little contribution I made here—I see the changes and that’s important to me. And I see that we’ve had superintendents that are Hispanic, we’ve had—and have stuff—people in authority in the school system and in the city and the county, and that’s great. That wasn’t in existence when I was a little kid shining shoes there on the square. I’d have to go to the colored restrooms because the big board on the restroom at the courthouse said, “Whites Only,” and not being considered white at the time by society, I’d seek the other bathroom and that kind of thing. So things have certainly improved, and I’ve always said, “I think we live in the greatest society on earth,” but I also say that there is room for improvement. Somebody said at one time—what was it—“The price of freedom or liberty is eternal vigilance,” and I aspire to that or adhere to that. So we have to always keep alert and keep on top of things for the system and through politics and you can accomplish a better life for all.
THIBODEAUX: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Mendez.
MENDEZ: Okay.
(End of interview)