Oral History Transcript - Lee Hudman - February 5, 2008
Interview with Lee Hudman
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: February 5, 2008
Location: San Marcos, Texas
_____________________
Interviewee: Lee Hudman – Mrs. Hudman and her late husband, John Thorman Hudman, lived and worked in Washington, D.C. for many years. She met President Johnson at a presentation made by Mr. Hudman, president of the Texas State University Alumni Association, and university representatives to Mr. Johnson in the Oval Office. Mrs. Hudman returned to San Marcos as a special assistant to Robert L. Hardesty, president of Texas State University, in 1981. She retired from the university as Executive Director for Development and Alumni Affairs.
Topics: Visit to President Johnson at White House as part of Texas State University (Southwest Texas) Alumni Association, Willard Deason, employment with Bob L. Hardesty and Texas State University
BARBARA THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is February 5, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Lee Hudman at San Marcos, Texas.
Mrs. Hudman, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will you also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or no.
MRS. LEE HUDMAN: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Thank you very much.
Mrs. Hudman, you were just telling me, if we could back up and capture some of that onto our recording, you were telling me about how you and your husband came to San Marcos. Would you start there?
HUDMAN: After I graduated from Southwestern and he had been doing some work there, we married and came to San Marcos where he spent three summers working on his masters which he got here.
THIBODEAUX: And from San Marcos, did you move to Washington?
HUDMAN: No, we moved several places before. We moved from San Marcos to Humble where he taught and I worked in Houston. Then we moved to Pettus, South Texas, and then we went to Houston. I worked for the IRS and while I was there, he took a job with the Census Bureau in Washington. So then I transferred in IRS from Houston to Washington.
THIBODEAUX: While you were in Washington, were both you and your husband involved in the Alumni Association?
HUDMAN: Yes, he was president I think in 1965, ’66, something like that. We had lots of good gatherings with the people who were up there. And of course there were a lot there because of President Johnson. (laughing)
THIBODEAUX: I always heard they had a strong alumni chapter in Washington D.C..
HUDMAN: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Is that how you became involved with President Johnson?
HUDMAN: It was through the Alumni Association at one of the gatherings that I met Willard, Bill Deason, his name is Willard and he was a classmate of President Johnson. They were very close friends. At one of those events, I met him and he asked me to come to work for him. President Johnson had appointed him to the Interstate Commerce Commission. We apparently clicked right at the beginning and he asked me to come run his office for him which I did. I think it was through Mr. Deason that he made the arrangements for us to be able to go into the Oval Office and bring up President McCrocklin and his wife and several other people to present certificates of appreciation from Southwest Texas to President Johnson. So there we were in the Oval Office handing him things. It’s hard to imagine.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe the event and your impressions of President Johnson at that time?
HUDMAN: Well he was very warm and welcoming. It was if you had walked into his home and he made you feel very comfortable.
THIBODEAUX: I’ve heard that word mentioned often about President Johnson, very welcoming. Were you associated or had any interaction with President Johnson since that time, maybe other alumni events?
HUDMAN: No, not really.
THIBODEAUX: Was he involved in the Alumni chapter in Washington D.C.?
HUDMAN: Not directly, but I think he kept up on what was going on through his friends.
THIBODEAUX: You were pretty well aware of Johnson happenings through Mr. Deason?
HUDMAN: Right. Yes. They were very close friends. I think they were partners in – when President Johnson bought a radio station and I think Bill Deason was one of his partners in purchasing that station in Austin. (pause) So they were very close friends.
THIBODEAUX: When did you first meet Bob Hardesty?
HUDMAN: Well, believe it or not, it was through Bill Deason. After my husband had died, I was coming back to Texas, because there I was, alone with my two daughters and all of my family was in Texas. So I decided to come back and move to Austin. I had just gotten settled when I got a phone call from Bill Deason saying that Bob Hardesty, who had been a speech writer and assistant to President Johnson, was being named to vice-president of the UT system in Austin and he needed someone to organize his office and work with him. He was recommending me and later that day I got a call from Bob Hardesty and he said, “You’ve got the job.”
I said, “Well, don’t you want to meet me?”
He said, “No, Bill Deason explained you could do everything I need to be done.” So that’s how I met him and then when he came to Southwest Texas he said, “I can’t come unless you come.” So I moved back here. (laughing)
THIBODEAUX: So in what capacity did you work for President Hardesty?
HUDMAN: I was, I don’t know, sort of office manager, secretary, whatever. Then when the vice-president of development left, he moved me to the Alumni House and I became Executive Director for Development and Alumni Affairs and worked at the Alumni House.
THIBODEAUX: President Hardesty is credited with reviving Johnson’s relationship with the university. I know that President Hardesty referred to President Johnson on many occasions. I have one quote from his convocation speech in 1981. “If there is one area where I feel the presence of LBJ looking over my shoulder everyday, it is in the area of human relations. He would want this school, his alma mater to be a model.” So working with Bob Hardesty, do you think there was a conscious effort by him to follow in Johnson’s footsteps or at least promote some of the same educational philosophies that he had?
HUDMAN: Yes. I think there were several factors there. The prior president had not been warmly received throughout the community. One of Bob’s goals was to restore the university – community relationship and that is one way he wanted to help. So one of the things I did was immediately become involved in so many community activities and to sort of make ties with the community. That kept me pretty busy. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: I bet. It sounds like Mr. Hardesty has some of his same management style that President Johnson did in the sense of forming personal relationships.
HUDMAN: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: Can you tell me about some of the programs that were instituted or events during Mr. Hardesty’s tenure that related to LBJ – such as the picnic, the LBJ Distinguished Speakers Series, that sort of thing?
HUDMAN: Yeah, and the LBJ Birthday Party at the president’s house became, I think that is still an annual event. That was one strong tie, and the lecture series. My memory fails me on anything else specific about that, but was for building strong ties. Another person that he was very close to that was also close to LBJ was Jake Pickle. So he had him, even though he was not a graduate of Southwest Texas, he had him named an alumnus.
THIBODEAUX: That’s interesting. Can you tell us a little bit about the LBJ picnic. I think they kind of combined the picnic and the birthday celebration into one activity.
HUDMAN: Right. Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: And that is what is held on the grounds of the president’s house?
HUDMAN: Right.
THIBODEAUX: Who was invited to the picnic?
HUDMAN: Well,
THIBODEAUX: Was this one of the events that kind of combined community and the university?
HUDMAN: Right. Yeah, yeah. I don’t think I can give you a precise list. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Oh, no, no ,no. I don’t need that. I was wondering did any of the Johnson family attend over the years?
HUDMAN: I don’t recall. Maybe they have. I’m not recalling any one particular time.
THIBODEAUX: Were there many people there that knew President Johnson, kind of like a reunion every year?
HUDMAN: Well, I’m not sure that many of them knew him, but they all honored and adored him and respected him. So I think that was one reason for being there.
THIBODEAUX: What about the LBJ Distinguished Lecture Series, how did that come about?
HUDMAN: Well, that precisely I can’t tell you, but it was a way of bringing in people who could give insight into lots of different areas for the students.
THIBODEAUX: I think another event was the 75th birthday party that was in 1983. Do you remember that celebration.
HUDMAN: Well, (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: That was a long time ago.
HUDMAN: Well (laughs) that precise year I don’t recall.
THIBODEAUX: Another activity was a celebration of the 20th anniversary of the signing of the Higher Education. Do you remember that?
HUDMAN: Not specifically.
THIBODEAUX: I’m not sure what the event entailed. I think they had speakers and I am not sure what else transpired. That is one thing about Mr. Hardesty is that he did bring Johnson back into focus at the university.
HUDMAN: Yes he did.
THIBODEAUX: Did you have any other interaction with the Johnson family throughout the years – either at the university or with the Alumni Association?
HUDMAN: No. But I did get to know a lot of the former workers for LBJ. You know, like Harry Middleton at the library. Several of the people came, some I remember coming to Austin, the UT system like Joe Califano and lots of people like that who were LBJ staff people [who] kept their ties with President Hardesty.
THIBODEAUX: Were you associated with the LBJ Library in any way? You mentioned Mr. Middleton.
HUDMAN: Well, just getting to know them and visiting it and having him visit in our offices and several of the staff people we got to know.
THIBODEAUX: Are there any other stories related to Lyndon Johnson or Mr. Hardesty that you can remember?
HUDMAN: Well, it was a wonderful experience being connected with him. I admired his ability to do things and his personal beliefs. He was just great to work for.
THIBODEAUX: Mr. Hardesty?
HUDMAN: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: I got to meet him the other day, well it’s been a few weeks, but he was a very nice man.
HUDMAN: Uh huh. Yes I was pleased to see a picture in the [San Marcos] Daily Record showing these people.
THIBODEAUX: Oh yes.
HUDMAN: Did you see that in the paper?
THIBODEAUX: I did. I think I have a copy of it myself, but I haven’t read it, the whole article. Do you ever talk to Mr. Hardesty? Do you keep up with him?
HUDMAN: Yeah. I was pleased to learn that he and Harry are both living at Westminster Manor now. That enables them to be close together.
(End of interview)