Oral History Transcript - Alton G. Brieger - March 10, 2008
Interview with Alton G. Brieger
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: March 10, 2008
Location: San Marcos, Texas
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Interviewee: Alton G. Brieger – Mr. Brieger came to Texas State from Texas A&I University in Kingsville, Texas in 1964 as Registrar and Dean of Admissions. He retired as an Associate Professor of History Emeritus in 1985. His wife, Ann, sat in on the interview as well.
Topics: Trip to the White House with Alumni presentation to Lyndon Johnson, campus visits including signing of Higher Education Act, informal visit to campus in 1965, change in enrollment at Texas State University, policies during national problem with campus protests, LBJ Award to Cotulla and Johnson City students.
BARBARA THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is March 10, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Alton Brieger at San Marcos, Texas.
Mr. Brieger, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will you also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or no.
AL BRIEGER: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Thank you very much. Can you tell me how you first came to Southwest Texas State College?
AL BRIEGER: Yes. It was in 1964 and there had been an unfortunate situation with the automobile accident of the registrar and his entire family in the summer of 1964. His name was Clem Jones, and the whole family was killed except there was a surviving child for a while. So very quickly, with the advent of a new president coming and all the changes at the university, they put in motion to try to fill that position because it was in the midsummer and commencement was coming up and the new semester was to start. So I was offered the position of the Registrar and Dean of Admissions. I came in and interviewed with Dr. Flowers, and Dr. Wilson, and Dr. Derrick, and a couple of other people. Then we moved up here on June…
ANN BRIEGER: July the first.
AL BRIEGER: July the first. When we came up on June the 30th and I went into the office on July 1st, 1964.
THIBODEAUX: 1964. How long were you with the university?
AL BRIEGER: Until 1985.
THIBODEAUX: So you saw a great deal of activity at the university.
AL BRIEGER: A lot of changes.
THIBODEAUX: Did you ever see Lyndon Johnson on campus prior to 1965?
AL BRIEGER: Yes, oh, on campus?
ANN BRIEGER: Not before then.
AL BRIEGER: No.
THIBODEAUX: When was the first time that you saw Lyndon Johnson?
ANN BRIEGER: The signing.
AL BRIEGER: Huh?
ANN BRIEGER: The signing, Jim McCrocklin’s inauguration.
AL BRIEGER: No, that wasn’t it.
ANN BRIEGER: No, I know.
AL BRIEGER: No, that wasn’t this.
ANN BRIEGER: No, I know.
AL BRIEGER: That was later. That was 19…
ANN BRIEGER: On campus.
THIBODEAUX: Was that in 1964?
AL BRIEGER: ’65, ’64.
ANN BRIEGER: Late ’64, early ’65.
THIBODEAUX: Okay.
AL BRIEGER: In November I think. Oh, and that is when he announced the creation of the Gary Job Corps, at the inaugural program. That was in the gymnasium and that was the first time he visited. What had happened, he had become president shortly before we came, actually in November of ’63, and so we immediately began to see some effects of that for the fact that the university was getting publicity as the only university in Texas that had graduated a president of the United States. We started to get a lot of inquiries in the office and noticed that it was having an effect on perhaps our future enrollments. So we started making plans accordingly and started growing by leaps and bounds. So it was a result of increased information about the university and its reputation.
THIBODEAUX: I’m glad you mentioned that. I heard that from another person so I am glad you verified that. When was your trip to Washington?
AL BRIEGER: Yeah, that was in 1964. The Alumni Association had put into operation the idea they wanted the award, the president, the designation being number one alumnus of the university. And they wanted a presentation made to him personally so the president, and his wife, and I went to Washington and made the presentation in the Oval Office. That was quite a thrill because we were not even sure what the procedure was going to be until we got there and then through the assistance of Jake Pickle and his office, he arranged for us to have an interview with the President and to make the presentation. We found out the night before that the wives were also going to be able to attend and made it very nice. The surprise of the morning, as far as I was concerned, was that I was in line to walk in holding that particular award, after it had been framed. Unbeknownst to any of us the President had surgery on his right hand the night before and so I was in a quandary as to how to shake his hand. I extended my left hand and we shook hands and everybody followed suit. We went in and made our presentation.
THIBODEAUX: Why were you selected to go to Washington D.C. to do the presentation?
AL BRIEGER: Why?
THIBODEAUX: Why.
ANN BRIEGER: Friends.
AL BRIEGER: Friends and the position of registrar may have had something to do with it signifying the official capacity of presentation.
THIBODEAUX: Who accompanied you on the trip?
BRIEGER: The president and his wife, Jim and Harriet McCrocklin.
THIBODEAUX: What were your impressions of President Johnson?
AL BRIEGER: First of all, something that I found out later was really something that he not only practiced but he had his people that worked for him practice the same thing, and that is to recognize people and put people and faces and names together. Evidently it was a gift that he had developed along the way. He was very intent on making sure that he knew who you were and what you were. This really came home to me. Another visit that was quite a surprise, fast forward to about 1965, but I am not sure…
ANN BRIEGER: Later.
AL BRIEGER: There had been an accident at the ranch and his foreman’s daughter had been killed falling from a horse. The President was extremely concerned and upset about that. So he came to New Braunfels, Texas for the funeral, and we got a call that the President of the United States wanted to come by and unwind. That he was kind of wanting to come back to the old office where he had been a student and just relax and get together with some deans and administrators, I think about twelve or fifteen, and very quickly have them ready to come on in the office and sit down and visit with the President for however long he wanted to be there. So the call went out and immediately they came by the office to clear us for having the necessary identification to be able to come into the office. It was such a short span of time between the time when all of that happened and they knew who was going to be coming, but they didn’t know the order of entry into the president’s office at the time. So when it came time for us to go in, when I was in line, I was walking up and ready to introduce myself and he said, “Oh Al, how are you today. It is nice to see you.” I was dumbfounded because I had only seen him the one time and for a very, very short time in the Oval Office. So that was a first indication that he really practiced what he preached and knew people after he met them for a while.
That was a very interesting session because there was about twelve of us I suppose and the thing that was so amazing about is that he sat there and not only reminisced, but conceived or rather shared the idea of the Lyndon Baines Johnson lecture, that he felt the university deserved to have the very best speakers in the country from various areas of government and business, etc. to come to the campus and share their knowledge and information with the student body. He said that he was going to put this into operation and asked what we thought about it. Everybody thought it was just a tremendous idea. I think it has really paid off along the way it has been a great program.
THIBODEAUX: What role did you play in the signing of the Higher Education Act in 1965?
AL BRIEGER: Well, quite somewhat by accident our office came into the fore play on that one. They had planned to have the signing on the stoop, I call it, of the Old Main, and this is where, of course, he had an office and had been the assistant to the president and all of this. All of a sudden they were getting all set up out there and our office happened to be the one right inside the door to the left [which] happened to be the assistant registrar’s office at the time along with the work area. All of a sudden they came in and they said, “We need a chair for the President to sit in.” They had found a desk but they needed a chair. So they rolled out this assistant registrar’s chair and took it. Well we never thought anything about it except the fact that we didn’t get our chair back. We wondered what in the world had happened. Well they said that was forever going to be a part of this collection wherever that might end up for this occasion. What actually happened, we had a downpour and rained out and they had to transport everything down to the gymnasium which is now the music building. Put everything into operation there in a very short period of time after a lot of preparation up there on the quad. So it was quite an event. Well I never did find out, it was sort of said one time that the chair ended up at the LBJ Library, but I think I found out later that it ended up at the Alumni House. But they gave us a brand new, beautiful chair. (laughing)
THIBODEAUX: So you got something good out of it anyway. (laughing)
Did you see Lyndon Johnson on any other occasion after that?
AL BRIEGER: Yeah, every time he came to campus we were there.
ANN BRIEGER: Summer commencement.
AL BRIEGER: Pardon?
ANN BRIEGER: You had a summer commencement where…
AL BRIEGER: Oh yeah, and he came into one of those things that is kind of interesting to me. It always has been, also its kind of a testimonial to Lady Bird. We had the commencement out in the stadium on a very hot afternoon and a very hot summer is what it was. Of course, they brought the Johnsons up in their limousine and it was out there and they seated the wives of the administrators in a certain area and the rest of us were up on the stage or built up platform on the stage. An incident happened that has no bearing on this except I was highly allergic to bees, and I thought, oh-oh, all of a sudden I saw a bee coming down the way and coming by these people. I said to the guy sitting next to me, “You watch, that bee is going to stop right in front of me and he’s going to head towards me, and if he does, I’m going to jump off the back of the stage,” which was quite high.
He said, “You wouldn’t do that.”
I said, “Oh yes I would.” But they shooed it away and it got away. But anyway, Ann was seated next to Lady Bird Johnson and she kept wondering what in the world am I going to say to this lady, how are we going to converse. She made…
ANN BRIEGER: about 34, 35 something like that. She was so charming and delightful. She carried on the conversation. She asked questions. It was just a joy. So it was kind of exciting.
AL BRIEGER: Of course that was another occasion. Well several times when he came to campus, when he first came we had a reception at at the Crook house, Ambassador Crook, well he was later an ambassador, and at one time they took him to the Alumni House and our son John, the pictures in the archives, but our son John was the first one to shake hands with him…
ANN BRIEGER: in front of the Alumni House.
AL BRIEGER: in front of the Alumni House. He never let his little sister, who was only about three or four, four or five, forget that he had shaken the hand of the President. So the next time the President came to town our daughter wanted to shake his hand. So we had the opportunity to let her shake his hand when we went to the reception at the Crook house. (laughing) That was a thrill for her too.
THIBODEAUX: I can imagine. So you have had quite a bit of exposure to the Johnson family.
AL BRIEGER: In that particular time, yes.
ANN BRIEGER: May I interrupt? You had his transcript in your desk drawer.
AL BRIEGER: No, I didn’t. It was too…
ANN BRIEGER: I thought you did.
AL BRIEGER: It was moved to a safety deposit box at the bank because people were wanting to see it and …
ANN BRIEGER: I thought you did. I’m wrong.
AL BRIEGER: we wanted it to be safe. It was during the unrest days when we weren’t sure things were going to be all right and the office was full all the time.
THIBODEAUX: So where copies made of it that were available to the public and you kept the original under key?
AL BRIEGER: No, it was all in the confidentiality of the Johnsons. Whatever was released was released through their auspices.
THIBODEAUX: Well that was another question I had, since you brought it up. What about unrest on campus during the latter part of the 60s, early part of the 70s?
AL BRIEGER: It was really scary because that was when they were setting fire to the buildings and all so we had to adopt policies or actually set in force a procedure whereby we said, “not if Old Main burns, but when Old Main burns.” We had duplicated all the records and put them on microfilm and put them in another place for safe keeping in case they were all lost – because all the student records were in our office. So we were constantly trying to put in security measures and hoping that nothing would actually happen and if it did we would try to be prepared. But it was a period of great volatility and concern because we were getting the information. We always said Southwest Texas was probably two years behind other colleges and universities for things to happen and in this case that would be good. In effect that’s exactly what did happen in a sense. We had some rabble rousers on campus and some people causing some serious problems for various sundry reasons, but we managed to survive it all.
THIBODEAUX: Was there a time, a brief time with Mr. McCrocklin’s connection to Mr. Johnson and with the Vietnam War, that the campus acquired a bad reputation or that registration fell down an any point?
AL BRIEGER: No. You mean registration?
THIBODEAUX: Yes. The amount of students that registered.
AL BRIEGER: No, as a matter of fact we continued to grow at a pace that was almost unbelievable. When I arrived here Southwest Texas had enrolled probably 3700 and some odd students in the fall semester. It was strange with the Teachers College they had more enrollment sometimes in the summer than they did in the spring and fall. But the situation was such that it was kind of never more than about 300 students that would enroll in an increase. All of a sudden I started detecting we were getting more inquiries and more interest in the university and perspective students so we grew actually from 37 to 4400 the first year. I was always referred to as the one who knew exactly how many students we were going to have, (laughing) whether true or not. From that point on we grew by anywhere from 1000 to 1500 sometimes. By the time, I’m not sure exactly, the time I left the office, I left the registrar admissions office in 1980 to become Dean of Student and Academic Services. I had seven offices under my area and by that time we were 12,000, I think. Then we were about close to 15,000 by ’85, I think, when I left, I resigned. I went back to the classroom full-time in 1985, ’80.
ANN BRIEGER: You retired in 1985.
AL BRIEGER: ’85?
ANN BRIEGER: Um hmm.
AL BRIEGER: I retired in ’85, but I elected to go back to the classroom full-time from 1980 to ’85.
THIBODEAUX: Do you think any of the Great Society programs that provided loans and work-study programs, such as Upward Bound, do you think any of that contributed to an increase in enrollment?
AL BRIEGER: Oh yes. A matter of fact, I think the force, planning ahead and trying to address the signs of the time was the hallmark of planning at the university at the time, and made it possible to address those needs that students were wanting to have. I think some of those were predicated on the philosophies and programs that Lyndon Johnson felt about higher education. I said not too long ago to a group of people, “He would have been extremely proud to walk down the campus and see what has transpired in the way of, not only numbers, but in the quality of the programs that have been developed and designed to satisfy the population.”
THIBODEAUX: That’s all the questions that I have, but did I miss anything, is there something else that you can think of?
ANN BRIEGER: You made a list.
AL BRIEGER: I’m not sure. Those three major things is…
ANN BRIEGER: That is all you…
AL BRIEGER: other than to sum up. His legacy has been really great. The total environment, at different levels was another thing I thought was extremely commendable on the part of the Johnsons. He established some various scholarships through the LBJ Foundation to award outstanding seniors in Cotulla, I think it was, and Johnson City scholarships to come to the university. Mrs. Johnson personally came over and interviewed those students with us. We selected them with our deans of our schools and the chairmen of the departments and all. Then they were selected and she and Mr. Kellam came over on an afternoon, came into the office, the president’s office, and I was there as a result of being the registrar. It was amazing to me how she was quizzing these students very directly and very interested in their future and conferring to them that the President would be very interested in their becoming successful as a result of having the same kind of advantages and higher education that he had as a youngster and making it possible for him to become what he did. So it was that involvement that stayed right there at grassroots and went on beyond that I thought was very commendable on their part.
THIBODEAUX: Well, thank you. That is something I was not aware of. Well thank you very much Mr. Brieger. That was good information.
AL BRIEGER: You’re welcome.
(End of interview)